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Aug 2019
11:20am, 12 Aug 2019
67,613 posts
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Gobi
Erm, dont people who identify as men or woman want to be classed as men or women.
I know two people who have changed and I dont think they want to spend their lives entering racing and saying oh I'm transgender.
They see themselves as women. (Neither is a world record athlete)
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Aug 2019
11:21am, 12 Aug 2019
1,468 posts
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Pothunter
Disclaimer: I’m a middle aged male who has never (knowingly) met a trans person.
If a trans category was created would there need to be two (m-f and f-m)? I assume (and please correct me if I’m wrong!) that someone transitioning from m to f would have certain biological advantages over someone transitioning from f to m.
I’m all walks of life there a piss-takers. If there was a trans category there’s nothing really to stop a male calling himself trans in order to set category records / claim prizes. No real difference to the situation we’re currently in.
As a father of two daughters I’d want them to compete in a fair environment. But if either of them came out as trans I wouldn’t want them to be excluded from anything on that basis.
I hope society is able to come up with a solution that is acceptable to all but I fear there are more questions than answers...
Finally, thanks especially to Vixx and TR for their openness on what is a very sensitive and personal issue.
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Aug 2019
11:30am, 12 Aug 2019
2,364 posts
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ThorntonRunner
Gobi you're right - some may be willing to enter a transgender category but (probably) most just want to be seen as men / women.
And Pothunter - agree entirely (and yes you would need separate trans men and trans women categories).
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Aug 2019
11:51am, 12 Aug 2019
202 posts
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Weath
Some interesting and thought provoking comments from all sides and to be brutally honest I can sympathise with the, shall we 'frustration', that Jovi has been trying to express.
The best compromise solution that I have heard of is for abandoning the male category in favour of an 'open' one that would include everyone with 2 legs with the exception of women, potentially stipulated as 'biological women by birth' - or whatever the correct terminology is.
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Aug 2019
11:54am, 12 Aug 2019
3,456 posts
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westmoors
I'm probably in the minority here. I'm not at the pointy end of races, but I'm never bothered about where I come in my gender/age category but my overall position. I would happily just compete without having to declare gender or age.
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Aug 2019
11:57am, 12 Aug 2019
6,428 posts
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Jovi Runner
westmoors - I hear you & understand that you may not be bothered but for those of us at the pointy end where prize money can be not insignifcant it is a real and ongoing concern that needs to be considered.
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Aug 2019
12:02pm, 12 Aug 2019
28,659 posts
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Mrs Jigs (Luverlylegs)
I am at times at the pointy end, and to be fair I believe I would be disgruntled if I was knocked back in races by a person who has transitioned to female, I guess I might even be a bit peeved if this happened at parkrun too but would not necessarily know.
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Aug 2019
12:24pm, 12 Aug 2019
709 posts
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Vixx
I can sympathise totally with Jovi, and I understand how much it means to people. I think the one issue that needs looking at (because it overlaps into the transwomen issue) is what is going to happen with biological women such as Caster Semenya and Dutti Chand who have naturally increased testosterone levels but are female and do not identify as Trans. I don't know if they have intersex conditions though.
Transwomen MUST have next to 0 testosterone levels and have been on hormones such as Oestrogen for a minimum of 1 year before taking part in any official competition as female, whereas Caster and Dutti are fighting to be able to not have to take hormones to reduce their natural advantages. Their argument is that people like Michael Phelps have their own genetic advantages (longer arms, higher lactate threshold levels etc) and so why should they be penalised?
Now, I can see all the arguments here - but I don't have the answers - other than as has been suggested an 'Open' category, or having specific Trans categories. My other thought had been a handicap type system - such as if a female athlete with a T level of 1 or 2 can run 400m in xx:xx min then someone like Caster has a 5 second handicap added to her time.
As I say, I don't have the answers, but surely if we put our heads together, reasonable solution can be found.
The majority of trans people are NOT likely to be competitive in competition. But for many, sport or exercise is one way to help with all the stresses of transition - being ostracised, or being hassled in the street, waiting times for the gender clinics are now between 2-4 years before you even get seen and assessed - let alone start treatment, feeling alone and unloved/unwanted, never feeling totally safe in your job or your home. Navigating toilets and changing rooms are a continual nightmare that I bet many of you have never even considered to be an issue. HRT can also cause weight gain, which causes people to be refused surgery, so I work to encourage many trans and non binary people to take exercise or activities that can help them keep fit to ensure that when surgery is scheduled they are not refused due to being overweight. For many trans people finding activities they enjoy has actually meant the difference between living and dying. The suicide rate for Trans people is that 42% of trans people have tried to commit suicide (that rises to 48% of younger Trans people) - and many are successful.
But sport and exercise at a basic level is there for all of us in a way, and all it asks of us is to have a go, try our best and enjoy it. Maybe have fun and make some friends along the way alongside enjoying some of the health benefits.
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Aug 2019
12:30pm, 12 Aug 2019
2,365 posts
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ThorntonRunner
Exactly what Vixx says
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Aug 2019
12:31pm, 12 Aug 2019
28,660 posts
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Mrs Jigs (Luverlylegs)
A very thought provoking post there Vixx, the majority of us would not be aware of the challenges facing someone who is in this situation. Sport and exercise should be there for all, it is well recognised as a great way to deal with a lot of mental and physical challenges that everyone faces in life from time to time. Thank you.
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Gender identity, please help change
Jun 2021
