Transgender Athletes
6 lurkers |
97 watchers
Aug 2019
8:20pm, 11 Aug 2019
2,353 posts
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ThorntonRunner
This thread is prompted by a discussion on the parkrun thread, after the ladies record at a parkrun was taken by someone who had only recently transitioned male->female, and hence would still have a significant physiological benefit from their male biology. The concensus was that this was unfair and the record should be scrubbed out, but opinions on the overall approach to transgender athletes, and potentially to transgender people overall, was more diverse. Vrap posted a reference to a parkrun blog in which a transgender woman had worked with parkrun to avoid this issue whilst continuing to run - blog.parkrun.com . It was agreed that we should move to a separate thread.
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Aug 2019
8:21pm, 11 Aug 2019
2,354 posts
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ThorntonRunner
At the point in the parkrun discussion that Mrs Jigs suggested I start a thread I was going to write a little of my experience: I guess there will be people who don't know any transgender people personally. I recognised that the parkrun thread discussion has moved on during the day, but I'll start where I was going to anyway and I'll try to keep it a brief as possible (though it is likely to be lengthy): My 21yo son is transgender (female to male), transitioning when he was 18. I would have considered ourselves an average family - two kids, a son and a daughter, daughter 2 years younger than the son. Daughter did daughter type things: had a dolls house though was never that taken with it. Wore dress, hair in pigtails etc. etc. Liked to try to do what her brother did - in terms of climbing frames for example, and significantly playing cricket. Cricket became her main activity and by the age of 10 she was playing for the county U13 girls team. She played for 10 years, eventually playing senior cricket in division 1 of the women's county championship with and against England internationals. Clearly this finished when she transitioned. However, alongside this, as she entered her teens she became more reserved. By aged about 14 I think, we discovered she was self-harming. Being reserved became being depressed. Aged 16 she ended up in hospital after taking an overdose. A year of psychotherapy through CAMHS, some improvement, but then another overdose. At root was this sense that she was in the wrong body - that her mind/brain was telling her she was male, and she hated the female body she was stuck with. For him, transitioning has enabled him to be at peace with who he is. It's not something I would ever have chosen for a child of mine, but we've seen the anguish of his pre-transition life, and we've seen the peace that transitioning has brought, and we support him wholeheartedly. As you can imagine, I spent much time thinking about how we came to this position: I can find nothing in his upbringing that would have triggered this response. He was treated as a girl, but not stereotyped - junior school uniform was a dress/skirt, but when she wanted (along with many others) to take the senior school girls uniform option of trousers, that was fine by us. Her clothing and hair style choices gradually became more masculine, but it wasn't an issue and was still within the range of normal girl behaviour. I suppose what I'm hinted at is that I've come to think there is something either genetic or early-years developmental that has hardwired a version of male-ness into his brain (I'm a parent and a software engineer, so some of my terminology may be amateurish!). For E, transitioning isn't a lifestyle choice or a personal decision, it was an imperative - he had to do it. Part of him resents being transgender, and is bitter in particular about the loss of the cricketing experience. But he sees himself very definitely as male. For him that IS his identity, not something he's chosen, but something inherent to himself. So, we come to transgender athletes. Very definitely, (and this is something that E agrees with, although as F->M it's doesn't affect to him directly), I don't believe that a transgender female should be awarded records or be placed in races whilst they still have residual benefit from having male physical characteristics - after all testosterone is a banned drug for female athletes. But then I also think it is unreasonable for someone who is a runner, to be told they cannot run after transitioning. I also don't think it's reasonable to demand that they register under a gender that is anathema to them. I'm not leaving myself many options! Vrap's article provides a good solution for parkrun, but relies on the transgender athlete taking the initiative, and whilst taking those transgender people I know (E and some of his friends) as a sample suggests most would be happy to take that approach, there clearly are and will be those who will insist on what they see as their right to be treated exactly as the gender they identify as, without consideration of issues of residual benefit - and then how do we protect women's sport? Another point: Many transgender people do not advertise that they are transgender (often in order to try to avoid the discrimination and transphobia (or just to avoid being treated as a curiosity) that they fear they would otherwise attract), so a solution that required them to publicly declare that they were transgender would be difficult for many to buy into (hence one reason I like the parkrun "assisted" approach). |
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Aug 2019
8:21pm, 11 Aug 2019
2,355 posts
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ThorntonRunner
A plea: This is a contentious issue. Please, if you feel the need to criticise what someone else has said, remember that this is FetchEveryone. We respect each other. Also remember that it is more difficult to interpret the spirit and nuances of what people write in a thread post, compared to when we talk in person. Give people the benefit of any doubt.
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Aug 2019
8:31pm, 11 Aug 2019
6,410 posts
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Jovi Runner
I completely agree we should support & help people suffering from gender dysphoria. However the biological reality is the male body is different to the female body & not simply relating to testosterone but 9ther physical capacity. We should ask ourselves why men's &;women's sports are separate & there lies the answer as to why M-F should not compete in the female category. I accept a person can truly believevthrmselves to be in the wrong body but that does not make it a biological reality. Being a woman is not a feeling or a way of behaving &;rather than being progressive the view that if you are 'feminine' your a female is actually a very 196l50s old school view of what a women is & h9w they should behave. IMO no man can truly know what it is to be a woman any sooner than 8 as a female can truly know what it is to be a man. Woman are more than the sum of their body parts or looks. If tramadol an want to be accepted for who they are why do they then feel they have to take hormones & try to make themselves in their own image of what a woman looks like! Men retain their physical advantage even after transitioning & teying to shut down or slate woman who dare to suggest otherwise is merely history repeating itself as men have told women since time began how they should think & what they should accept. |
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Aug 2019
8:33pm, 11 Aug 2019
6,411 posts
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Jovi Runner
That should have said if transwoman not tramadol - dratted phone auto correct!
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Aug 2019
8:37pm, 11 Aug 2019
6,412 posts
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Jovi Runner
My real fear is that by affirming people in their wish to transition that in 20 years or so when the real effects of pumping huge amounts of the opposite sex' s hormones into their bodies comes home to roost. There is also the issue of all the sex specific illnesses that may not be diagnosed if one changes their birth certificate &; thereby wouldn't be screened for those issues.
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Aug 2019
8:38pm, 11 Aug 2019
28,649 posts
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Mrs Jigs (Luverlylegs)
Thank you TR, I have yet to read your posts but did note your plea which I would like to reiterate. I hope we can all discuss this in a pleasant way. A plea: This is a contentious issue. Please, if you feel the need to criticise what someone else has said, remember that this is FetchEveryone. We respect each other. Also remember that it is more difficult to interpret the spirit and nuances of what people write in a thread post, compared to when we talk in person. Give people the benefit of any doubt. |
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Aug 2019
8:41pm, 11 Aug 2019
6,413 posts
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Jovi Runner
I'd query what is a 'masculine' hairstyle. Again, & I accept it's only my opinion, trans is very much based in a societal enforced view of what a woman should look like.
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Aug 2019
8:51pm, 11 Aug 2019
2,357 posts
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ThorntonRunner
Sorry JR - I was using shorthand for "hairstyles more usually associated with men". I did say that it was in the range of normal (a poor, cack-handed phrase) girls styles. I suspect that without the societal enforced views that fewer people would feel the need to transition, but until society changes... There is not just an issue of society's view of women, it's also society's view of men - society is more tolerant of women wearing what would traditionally be considered men's clothing than men wearing what would traditionally be considered women's clothing |
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Aug 2019
8:51pm, 11 Aug 2019
6,415 posts
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Jovi Runner
ThorntonRunner - do you have concerns 're on going medical issues or that ypur child may not be invited for example for female cancer based screening in the future? I'm genuinely interested as I really am concerned about the increasing number of people who will forever be dependent on drugs for the remainder of their life.
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