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Aug 2019
12:31pm, 12 Aug 2019
15,088 posts
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Bazoaxe
Vixx, I understood that Semenya was confirmed by CAS as biologically male - hence why she can no longer compete unless shr reduces T levels
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Aug 2019
12:31pm, 12 Aug 2019
13,599 posts
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Serendippily
It’s kind of why I mentioned Semenya. Biological gender just isn’t that straight cut. She’s done nothing to seek advantage and she has met plenty of disadvantage. The people I know who have transitioned (and I don’t know them well enough to speak for them) would seem to me to fall into same category ie they certainly aren’t doing this for an advantage in parkrun. So I would hope for space to run at all abilities: which IMO parkrun should be and shouldn’t force you to state a gender if you don’t want to, and competition rules not to treat people like some kind of cheats de facto but to be sensitive to not destroy the protective categories which are aimed at keeping similar groups together. Difficult. But to go back to a point Vixx made all runners should be allowed to run and are welcome here
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Aug 2019
12:33pm, 12 Aug 2019
13,600 posts
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Serendippily
Oh Vixx you commented about a zillion times better than I did while I was struggling to articulate my thoughts and missed two pages. Exactly that
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Aug 2019
12:35pm, 12 Aug 2019
6,429 posts
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Jovi Runner
Thanks Vixx - as ever way more eloquent than my ramblings 
I would just say that as a female athlete/runner what helps keep me sane & assists my mental health is the ability to compete & be competitive with other females. Not everyone is competitive but some of us are & that is part of our make up. Training is what makes me tick & reduces stress. This is why I'm so vociferous about protecting female sport as for many female born women removing the ability to ever be competitive causes us stress.
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Aug 2019
12:39pm, 12 Aug 2019
6,430 posts
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Jovi Runner
I agree Serendipity that transgender runners don't all set out with the express purpose of gaining an unfair advantage but the reality of their biology is that they do have an unfair advantage IKO.
As Vixx says we do need to set a definition of what constitutes female completion as if we don't it will leave the door open for those less scrupulous who will just self ID with no intention of transitioning which rather than improvet transgender people's well being is actually more likely to set it back.
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Aug 2019
12:40pm, 12 Aug 2019
6,431 posts
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Jovi Runner
IMO not IKO.
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Aug 2019
12:47pm, 12 Aug 2019
710 posts
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Vixx
Cheers bazoaxe - I hadn't seen that actually confirmed anywhere.
Thank you Serendippily
Jovi - totally with you and can see exactly where you are coming from.
My 'female' Testosterone level was 3.9 before I started hormones. Women should be between 0 and 2. I was tested for PCOS before hormones could start as that can cause issues further down the line if T is added (and I would most likely have to have had a hysterectomy at an early point), but I didn't have PCOS, and yet I also didn't really have a competitive sporting advantage over anyone either. I was good at the throwing events, but wasn't winning them regularly, so personally I had no advantage over anyone.
Still the case today. I'll see you all at the back of any race :D
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Aug 2019
1:02pm, 12 Aug 2019
96 posts
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JJJ
parkrun HQ did consider changing the categories from just M or F but couldn't come up with a good solution - they could have Other or None but that highlights people in the results as being different whereas I imagine most TG people would prefer to blend in with the crowd. Also because there are so many shades between M & F would there need to be 10 categories like para sport?
I guess that if all TG people contacted HQ and asked for a change then they would change something but probably most are mid field so don't affect results and neither them or anyone else is bothered, it's only if someone is quick that it becomes an issue.
Perhaps a flag (not visible in results pages) for 'TG, do not include in records' is the answer - this happens for dog assisted and wheelchair.
Vixx - thanks for your input, good to have someone who can comment authoritatively As to why UKA haven't got on with it - they don't just get on with anything, seem to be controlled by what some call the 'high trouser brigade' - "It's always been done like this so why should we change it?" which is why M & F still run different distances at XC and women weren't allowed to run marathons til 1970something!
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Aug 2019
1:11pm, 12 Aug 2019
67,617 posts
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Gobi
CAS have not said she is MALE Baz, the upheld a ruling and there is a huge text on XY XX etc but they are not saying she is male.
It did however accept an updated version if this
Eligibility Regulations for the Female Classification (Athletes with Differences of Sex Development)
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Aug 2019
1:11pm, 12 Aug 2019
13,601 posts
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Serendippily
Thanks again Vixx see you there
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