Transgender Athletes

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Gobi Aug 2019 4:41pm, 13 Aug 2019 67,647 posts	0 Gobi Bullshit!!!!!!!!!
Gobi Aug 2019 4:42pm, 13 Aug 2019 67,648 posts	0 Gobi Oops, sorry everyone. Fetch vacation needed now. Sorry.
Jovi Runner Aug 2019 4:46pm, 13 Aug 2019 6,455 posts	0 Jovi Runner Oh well, silly me - there I was thinking it was possible to have an opinion different to others & be accepted - guess not.
Vixx Aug 2019 5:51pm, 13 Aug 2019 717 posts	0 Vixx I feel that things are getting a bit heated again. I am trying to explain things so that people can understand what is being put in place to protect women, and I do think the discussions need to be had but statistically any genuine transwoman competing in sport is unlikely to be a threat - there just aren't enough of them performing at a high enough level. There were 4 transwomen that I know of that ran last year's GNR. One still competes as male due to not starting hormones yet, but none of them posted a time that would trouble Jovi's time in half-marathons and none will in the future. There is no-one I know of currently transitioning that is posting GFA times in any distance. I saw one post and I cannot remember who posted it or the exact words but it amounted to "can't transwomen or transgender people essentially learn to live as the gender they were born?" Not always. I tried my damnedest to live as female. I tried SO hard to fit in and be a woman, and it didn't work. I wasn't accepted by women, the way I thought and acted wasn't suited and caused people to react against me, rather than with me. I tried to learn how to behave better, how I thought women acted, how to dress as woman dressed. I grew long hair, but still got threatened with violence in public toilets because people thought I was a man (and this was throughout my life, well before transitioning). I had people looking above and below the toilet door to try and catch me out as male. I was physically stopped by other women trying to use public toilets in the Arndale in Manchester until they could find out whether I had boobs or not. ALL of this was before transitioning. I was nearly one of the 42% who try and commit suicide. I feel in my way that I am lucky now to be me. But I feel that biologically born males and females are lucky to never have the internal struggle about who they are and where they fit in to society, in the same way that straight people never have the struggle of wondering whether they are gay or not. I've had both struggles, and came out at times where it was not socially acceptable to do so. Although people think it is easier now, crimes against LGBT people are going up, there are regular hate pieces in the newspapers, and Trans people can (and are) still discriminated against in the workplace and police have no idea how to process hate crimes against us, so it's not reported usually. Exercise is the one thing we could all do - it helps us to make friends, get fitter and healthier, and have fun. Running really helped me through my transition. I know that I won't be breaking any land speed records, but I enjoy running, and I hope that I have made some good friends from it. I hope that people can still enjoy friendship even despite this.
ThorntonRunner Aug 2019 5:54pm, 13 Aug 2019 2,378 posts	0 ThorntonRunner Thanks Vixx
fetcheveryone Aug 2019 6:04pm, 13 Aug 2019 22,548 posts	0 fetcheveryone [Vixx, you were writing your post at the same time I was writing mine. And I think you're making the same point as me about how likely the contentious issue is likely to occur. I can see clearly that for the vast majority of folks who are considering, going through, or completed transition, there's quite enough to be going on with. My sympathies for everything you've been through, and best wishes for everything you have to deal with.] I've been thinking about the video clip, and been wondering about the prevalence of trans women in competitive sport. A brief google estimates that there are in the order of half a million trans people in the UK, out of a population of 66 million people. That means that in a marathon with 1000 random entrants, there would be fewer than 8 trans people; or approximately four trans women. Amongst these four, arguably an equal chance that they would be good or bad at running. It feels unlikely that the presence of these four trans women would cause routine prize-winning problems for the rest of the field. Filtering the UK population for "interested in sport X", and "currently good at sport X", I cannot see a circumstance where the ratios above would be significantly different. If there are any studies out there, I'd be interested to read them.
Vixx Aug 2019 6:12pm, 13 Aug 2019 718 posts	0 Vixx Thanks TR and Fetch I know there was a thing in the US (which gets rehashed every year) about transwomen qualifying for Boston. If they BQ as male then they have to run as male as far as I know. If they have transitioned and run as women then they must get the female BQ time, but there are only a handful who actually get the times, and none of them have challenged for prizes ever.
DocMoye Aug 2019 6:28pm, 13 Aug 2019 29,498 posts	0 DocMoye on the subject of trying to live as the gender you are born as, my friends brother in law has been doing that. he is married with two teenage children. He has now decided to transition and having always felt he was female. Its been a really tough decision for her. She is so much happier as a woman, but it has been difficult for her family, though they are totally supportive. When I first heard about it I really couldnt understand why now. but the more I have discussed it with my friend I realise that for her the option of transitioning earlier in life was not a realistic one as society was just not accepting enough. So she is now taking the chance to live the life that should have been hers. How many more people must have been trapped in this way? And such a courageous thing for her to do.
MsG Aug 2019 8:26pm, 13 Aug 2019 1,214 posts	0 MsG The US college system is seeing self identified* m-f competing with females in sport - this is direct competition for scholarships. I don't think that's fair. I've previously tried to put my position forward on a different thread and feel it is such a contentious issue that's why I've avoided posting on this thread until now. I believe that mtf should not be allowed to compete against women as it's inherently unfair.
Helegant Aug 2019 8:44pm, 13 Aug 2019 6,434 posts	0 Helegant What a difficult topic! My limited experience (I only know one trans m-f well enough to have discussed the important stuff) supports everything that has been said to date about the difficulties and challenges of transition, and I hope I understand the yearning to be accepted as the person you think you are. Who wouldn't want that? I also have huge sympathy for those women who feel that the results of their hard work are at risk as per the video posted. I've tossed around idea for different categories in the same vein as para sport - XX females, XY females etc, but there doesn't seem to be a solution that allows everyone to feel both included and treated fairly. So may I just note that I'm following with interest and thank everyone, especially Vixx and TR, for their trust and openness.