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Aug 2019
3:23pm, 13 Aug 2019
2,377 posts
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ThorntonRunner
In our experience I don't think there was any pressure on E to transition just because he was tomboyish - certainly Mrs TR and I would far, far have preferred that he didn't feel the need to and were perfectly happy with his tomboyishness. His life also revolved around a sporting environment in which tomboyishness was almost the norm. The loss of cricket to him was massive, and if he could have conceived of a way of coping without transitioning he would.
It's one of the reasons I feel there is something more deep-rooted to it as I didn't see those external pressures on him, it did seem internal (obviously I accept I am an external observer to this and hence imperfect).
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Aug 2019
3:37pm, 13 Aug 2019
67,642 posts
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Gobi
What about people who felt they had to conceal it for 30/40 years because society expected it who have now changed?
These are hardly people forced down a road but people who have felt trapped in the wrong body/wrong sex their entire life.
I never understood it when my friend first announced she was doing this but now find myself supporting her choice to change.
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Aug 2019
3:39pm, 13 Aug 2019
42,728 posts
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Velociraptor
I'm not seeing young people being pushed into gender reassignment by parents, teachers, mental health professionals or anyone else, and there are still considerable hoops to be jumped through before treatment of any sort is considered. I would hope those hoops would catch situations in which a parent is pushing a child towards gender reassignment for (this sounds too wicked to contemplate, but it happens in other medical areas) the social capital of having a child who has a lot of health care encounters and attention from support groups.
But anyway. Athletes 
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Aug 2019
3:39pm, 13 Aug 2019
4,935 posts
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jda
I suppose I was after something a bit more general Jovi: what is the definition of "woman" for the purposes of athletic competition? The concept of a restricted category implies the existence of the restriction which needs to be fairly clearly established in the rules.
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Aug 2019
3:53pm, 13 Aug 2019
6,450 posts
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Jovi Runner
The definition of a woman since the dawn of human history has been "adult human female". It only appears to have changed in the last 10 years.
Whilst I believe you can change your "gender" which is a societal concept I simply do not accept you can change your sex.
Woman are discriminated, and continue to be so, on the basis of their sex not a their gender identity!
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Aug 2019
4:08pm, 13 Aug 2019
67,644 posts
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Gobi
Deleted chunk of post out of respect for others.
I can see no point talking to you about this anymore and know anything else I say will be seen as insulting or rude or derogatory in some way so I shall say my goodbyes here and stop following the thread.
I will not be checking back for a response.
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Aug 2019
4:10pm, 13 Aug 2019
6,451 posts
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Jovi Runner
IF we are going back to athletes, then as things stand no one is saying transgender M-F can't play the sport. We are considering whether they can compete. If it was just about playing sport then why could M-F not just continue to play in the male category. IT is therefore clearly about winning and for a lot of these men it is about the winning otherwise why not, as I say, continue just to play in the mens teams rather than trying to appropriate the womens. Surely that would be true inclusivity - men and transwomen together?
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Aug 2019
4:13pm, 13 Aug 2019
6,452 posts
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Jovi Runner
Me neither Gobi. As a woman I feel brow beaten into accepting men into female spaces and sport. It is neither anti inclusivty or bigotted to fight for womens competitve sport. A very sad day indeed - as clearly demonstrated in that video posted earlier. Please look at those ladies faces again on that video - this is precisely how I feel and I am not a bigot! I just hope none of you in this group ever have daughters who have to experience what those girls in that video did or have to explain to them why they can never be competitve in sport or why they have been seveerly injured by a male body when competing against them.
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Aug 2019
4:15pm, 13 Aug 2019
6,453 posts
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Jovi Runner
MAybe I'll just post the link again - please do look clearly at the girls faces - or maybe we should just label them as bigots for thinking this way and move on.....
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Aug 2019
4:32pm, 13 Aug 2019
6,454 posts
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Jovi Runner
Gobi et al - please understand me. I support anybody's desire to transition but this thread was set up to debate transgender athletes & their place in competiion. That is a very separate area and one which admittedly I will never agree that M_F should comepete together for physical advantage and also safety reasons.
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