Transgender Athletes

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paul the builder Jun 2021 11:54am, 24 Jun 2021 7,172 posts	0 paul the builder No lark, I don't concur. Not least because the protected category is "blind", not "lifelong blind". Is that perfect? Probably not. But para sport is built on the acceptance (compromise) that as well as everybody having different abilities, athletes also have slight different disabilities. But I really don't want to go down that rabbit-hole. I agree with Roo above that analogies aren't helpful, nor necessary.
RooA Jun 2021 11:57am, 24 Jun 2021 1,218 posts	0 RooA It also depends on what the "condition to compete fairly" is. Sightedness in the blind sprinter analogy. The handicap condition is blindness. A female body in the case of transwomen. The handicap condition is a female body. The sprinter can fully aquire blindness. Is it possible for a transwomen to fully aquire a female body?
RooA Jun 2021 11:59am, 24 Jun 2021 1,219 posts	0 RooA I mean "blindness" rather than "sightedness" in one sentence above. Typo. Sorry.
larkim Jun 2021 12:00pm, 24 Jun 2021 14,893 posts	0 larkim OK, I'll reflect further!! Maybe the one question that comes out of it then is, are there any analogous situations to transwomen in elite sport that we can draw upon to help come to the right answer? Or are we just going to be stuck with the irreconcilable position we're in now where there are two opposing rational arguments and it will end up with simply personal opinion as to which option is preferred?
auburnette Jun 2021 12:06pm, 24 Jun 2021 1,787 posts	0 auburnette Re the blind Bolt thought experiment, I think it's super unlikely that someone who had been sighted would not suffer from a significant deterioration of performance which would take them a long time to adjust to. I doubt they'd be troubling the competition from the off. Yes, once they adjusted they might begin beating the competition in that category, everyone in that category having had to learn the particular skill of blind running. I can't see that they would be benefiting from an unfair advantage, if anything a disadvantage because being blind requires huge adjustments which they would not be used to. I don't think the same is true when it comes to transwomen's participation in sport. The handicap is not so large. I could see potential for a transwoman sprinter to suffer more injuries as a result of oestrogen treatment (high oestrogen increases the flexibility of ligaments and may be the reason why female athletes are disproportionately at risk of ACL rupture: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6341375/) but it's unlikely that they are at any more risk in this regard than people born female would be, who have naturally occurring oestrogen possibly at higher and fluctuating levels. Meanwhile the advantages of higher blood volume, larger heart, muscle composition, pelvis shape etc remain, and they occur as a result of having been born male, not necessarily as a result of having been born an exceptionally talented sprinter relative to peers.
SPR Jun 2021 12:46pm, 24 Jun 2021 34,561 posts	0 SPR In theory you should need to be of that standard to transition and be competitive as a transwoman in elite sport. If sub elite male athletes can transition and become elite female athletes, there's an advantage.
SPR Jun 2021 12:47pm, 24 Jun 2021 34,562 posts	0 SPR Sorry that should have said using Usain Bolt or other elite sprinters as an example...
SPR Jun 2021 12:53pm, 24 Jun 2021 34,563 posts	0 SPR I think RooA 1214 pretty much covers the key questions.
auburnette Jun 2021 1:19pm, 24 Jun 2021 1,788 posts	0 auburnette This is a clearly written study exploring the physiological (if not ethical!) considerations around advantage (apologies if posted before, i haven't gone through the whole thread): link.springer.com
MsG Jun 2021 3:40pm, 24 Jun 2021 1,872 posts	0 MsG In answer to RooA's question at post 1218, personally I don't believe it is possible for a trans woman to fully acquire a female body. Nor do I consider, in my opinion, that the lived experience for a trans woman is the same as a person born female. I will also say that I personally don't think anyone can fully understand anyone else's lived experience is, no matter what body they are born in. We're all on the outside, guessing. With that, I recognise that people go through significant challenges when they find they are trans gender. I feel it should also be recognised that women also face challenges through societal issues based on their female biology that the creation of protected women's categories of sport (in reference to the topic here) has helped to address.