Transgender Athletes

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Grast_girl Jun 2021 8:02pm, 23 Jun 2021 2,226 posts	0 Grast_girl I feel sorry for Laurel and Kuinini; Laurel because all this publicity may put her life in danger (knowing that there are some people out there who could take things that far) and Kuinini because this was her first shot at the Olympics. However, the rules are so peculiar in terms of who is allowed to compete at the Olympics that it could easily have happened to someone else. Someone suggested that there may be Chinese athletes who can't compete who might be stronger than one or both of them because the rules are set up to prevent too many from one country/region competing. If the Chinese didn't have any good weightlifters, Kuinini would probably have got in too. For some sports male puberty might not convey enough advantage for it to matter, whereas other sports that primarily require strength it seems very likely that it will. In non-contact sports, an open category may be a temporary, imperfect solution. The open category could include trans women and those women with DSD who don't want to suppress their hormones. Given the numbers involved the open category and female athletes could compete together, but have separate records and medals? That might actually provide the data needed to make a decision on a sport-by-sport basis.
auburnette Jun 2021 8:18pm, 23 Jun 2021 1,784 posts	0 auburnette I'm definitely a fan of finding a way to have everyone's achievements recognised; I think it needs to extend to trans men too given there's a (likely) disadvantage, plus I don't know if trans men on testosterone are actually allowed to compete in elite sport!
SPR Jun 2021 8:33am, 24 Jun 2021 34,558 posts	0 SPR Re the discussion about how much testosterone transwomen athletes are allowed, apparently the 5nmol/L testosterone limit is actually specific to athletics (and presumably event specific to be consistent re DSD athletes). The IOC limit of 10nmol/L still applies in other sports.
swittle Jun 2021 8:34am, 24 Jun 2021 76,820 posts	0 swittle BBC Radio 4 'Woman's Hour' yesterday. From 2:56 to 21:25. Extended discussion, including input from a Loughboro' Univ. Ph.D. researcher, re Laura Hubbard, the Olympics, research so far, and research still required. bbc.co.uk
Vixx Jun 2021 8:49am, 24 Jun 2021 1,373 posts	0 Vixx auburnette - One Trans man who was in the US Olympic trials was going to be Chris Mosier. You can read more here: en.wikipedia.org
The_Saint Jun 2021 9:01am, 24 Jun 2021 6,851 posts	0 The_Saint The point about "transplanting" is well made which is why I confine myself to only commenting on errors of logic or fact such as the spurious "X is tall therefore has an advantage" which is correctly termed a "Category Error". There are in fact sports where separate categories exist that recognise differences in key physical attributes, boxing is an obvious example with weight divisions. Where a sport does not have these then it is because it is not an issue that anyone takes seriously.
The_Saint Jun 2021 9:02am, 24 Jun 2021 6,852 posts	0 The_Saint Auto correct issue above.
larkim Jun 2021 9:42am, 24 Jun 2021 14,888 posts	0 larkim I suppose in weight lifting there is a reasonably strong argument for saying there should be only one category of person that can compete, and the winner is the person who lifts the most. c.f. The World's Strongest Man competition etc. The categorisations there are presumably to widen the sport's appeal, participation depth and overall marketability. If there was no categorisation then there'd still be no barrier to participating safely as a lower weight individual, it would just be self limiting in terms of how much you could lift. Boxing is different; without the categorisations it is not possible for a flyweight to get into the ring with a heavyweight safely. For sports without categorisations based on physical attributes, in the main the nature of the sport deals with it automatically. Rugby teams comprise people of a range of body shapes and sizes because in different parts of the game different attributes are important tactically. In a "not taking it seriously" concept, it's not impossible to imagine a basketball categorisation where teams must comprise individuals with heights lower than (say) 1.70m tall, which would remove the natural exclusion of shorter adults from the top tiers of the game. Wouldn't happen of course.
auburnette Jun 2021 9:53am, 24 Jun 2021 1,785 posts	0 auburnette @Vixx, thanks for sharing his info, he's really talented.
RooA Jun 2021 10:48am, 24 Jun 2021 1,214 posts	0 RooA Surely we know that the gulf between male and female performance in most sports is not the result of different, but overlapping, bell curves around height and weight between the sexes? The questions are really actually pretty simple but we all seem to want to prevaricate around it. Can the born male body be (ethically) hobbled enough by medical interventions to allow fair competition within the women's handicap class in most sports? If not, is it more important to fully validate transwomen as women by inclusion in women's sports regardless? Or is assurance of as fair play as possible in women's sport the priority? Keeping in mind the reasons for women's sports existing in the first place. If the answer to the first question is, as yet, unclear what is the most ethical course forwards? Whose rights do we prioritise while we await a definitive answer? I don't personally think you need to be a transperson or even a woman to have valid opinions or analysis on this discussion. Just a working brain will do.