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Aug 2019
7:24am, 15 Aug 2019
4,058 posts
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1step2far
At link I meant.
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Aug 2019
7:29am, 15 Aug 2019
6,485 posts
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Jovi Runner
Ok I'll have a look. I'm not an academic but will see what I can find.
For the purposes of fairness I'd stress that if anyone wanrs do post links to other scientific peer reviewed articles that have an alternative conclusion I'm more than happy to read those.
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Aug 2019
7:36am, 15 Aug 2019
6,486 posts
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Jovi Runner
I admit I may have veered alightly off topic but hopefully the video/transcript gets things back on topic.
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Aug 2019
7:58am, 15 Aug 2019
6,870 posts
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Jambomo
Yeah although I was up for CrossFit earlier, I couldn’t listen to the video as others were in bed, I’ll have a look at lunch.
I can see if I can find the paper if that is any help Jovi? I work in open access so it’ll be easier for me to find stuff - it can be difficult to find papers that are accessible due to publishing restrictions.
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Aug 2019
8:00am, 15 Aug 2019
22,563 posts
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fetcheveryone
It’s a new day today, and an opportunity to reset things a bit. Reading back over the posts from yesterday night was not great for me. Please can I ask for continuing courtesy from ALL posters. I know that beliefs are strongly held on all sides of the debate. But without compassion and respect from everyone involved, progress is halted in favour of mudslinging. As a rule, look for the common ground first - and then it’s easier to see that we are all looking for the same things - fairness, safeness, and enjoyment for all.
If you’re not able to do this out of respect for others, then please spare a thought for your friendly neighbourhood forum manager. Thanks 
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Aug 2019
8:00am, 15 Aug 2019
29,504 posts
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DocMoye
I have watched the video. It highlights some genuine issues and the need to review decisions as new evidence comes available.
With hindsight some decisions are bound to turn out to be wrong and will need to be changed. We must embrace the opportunity to debate the issue and do so. From the evidence in that clip it would suggest that transwomen will never be able to compete fairly against cis women, but the issue then in my mind is where can these transwomen compete? They need a way to be accepted in sport, and it is for all of us to enable them.
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Aug 2019
8:10am, 15 Aug 2019
263 posts
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Non-runner
An “open” category is one way forward, which could also be open to XY women or those with intersex issues that give them an unfair advantage e.g. outwardly female sexual organs but internally undescended testes. My personal view in terms of competitive sport is that “female” isn’t a default state for anyone no longer identifying as, or not fully physiologically male. There should be strict criteria for competition in female sport to ensure protection, just as there are for various categories of boxing or disability sport. Socially, I‘m all for everyone doing what they want and identifying any way they choose but competitive sport is a different issue.
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Aug 2019
8:15am, 15 Aug 2019
29,507 posts
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DocMoye
And at what level do these criteria come..... At the same level as drug testing ?
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Aug 2019
8:34am, 15 Aug 2019
6,871 posts
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Jambomo
The link Jovi provided is a transcript of Dr Hilton's speech and I don't think it has come from a single paper, I think its from her work more broadly - here is a link to her papers on the Uni of Manchester institutional repository:
https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/emma-hilton(20499917-fe6c-4919-9df3-15439795a7bb).html
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Aug 2019
8:34am, 15 Aug 2019
18,240 posts
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ChrisHB
Perhaps we all need to have a "handicap" as in golf so any two athletes can compete fairly against each other.
The local running club organises (-ed?) a handicap race in which the organiser's aim is to start everyone at varying times in order that they should all finish at the same moment.
Not that the word "handicap" is likely to be the best choice.
And then the winner will be the person who finds the most lenient handicapper.
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