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Aug 2019
8:02pm, 14 Aug 2019
4,046 posts
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1step2far
But MsG that was an extreme outlier- and there are outliers in every section of society.
Vixx one day we should... I'll buy you a beer. Or a hot chocolate!
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Aug 2019
8:05pm, 14 Aug 2019
1,224 posts
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MsG
I had a man (visiting another patient) staring* at me in my pyjamas when I went to the ward bathroom. Given I'd just had my appendix out, I looked like death warmed up. Never underestimate the ability of people to take advantage of a situation or pass on the chance to leer at women with a few less clothes on than usual. It's probably mostly about power.
*the I've got x-ray vision looking at your breasts type state.
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Aug 2019
8:08pm, 14 Aug 2019
4,047 posts
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1step2far
But with that argument I could be looking at you? Or you could have a male nurse? I could be in the bed opposite you? I wouldn't be looking. Not everyone is out to take advantage. It saddens me so much. 
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Aug 2019
8:08pm, 14 Aug 2019
1,225 posts
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MsG
So what numbers of outliers is it ok to have? I'm trying to not to go off topic again but the increasing number of self-id transwomen in prison should also make people reflect on the risks of reducing female sex based protection/rights.
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Aug 2019
8:09pm, 14 Aug 2019
9,010 posts
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rf_fozzy
The problem I have with that line of argument MsG, where you highlight an extreme case to make a broader point, is that it's the same line that was being perpetuated in the 60/70/80/early 90s about gay people (I note in this case particularly gay men, but I'm sure the same kind of things were said about gay women, as 1step2far has already sadly told us of) - that all gay men were "hiding" something or that they were all paedophiles or other such slurs (I remember several scaremongering stories growing up about scout leaders who were gay - for some reason they were always scout leaders - who were to be 'feared').
In the end, that yes, whilst there was an extreme minority that were transgressing the law, it was an extreme minority and the broader fears were unfounded.
So, my default position here is to attempt to learn from the past and assume that the vast majority of trans people are just normal people to be respected to act within normal societal bounds and we allow the justice system to deal with the extreme few who break the law.
Fear of the "other" is something that is never good.
However, we are digressing from the thread here. Which was about transgender athletes. Here there is no black/white and instead only shades of grey. And there are no easy answers, as I tried to post earlier, before we disappeared down the rabbit hole.
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Aug 2019
8:12pm, 14 Aug 2019
13,625 posts
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Serendippily
how many same sex assaults are acceptable? I had a terrible time in all female changing rooms and toilets not because there were any doubts about my sexuality but because I was unpopular
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Aug 2019
8:12pm, 14 Aug 2019
13,626 posts
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Serendippily
Sorry yes fozzy off point
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Aug 2019
8:13pm, 14 Aug 2019
9,011 posts
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rf_fozzy
Additionally, I could also note that similar types of "other" arguments have also been made along racial lines (and are still sadly made in some circles, including the current US president)
I would hope we could all agree that these generalisations are wrong and unhelpful.
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Aug 2019
8:14pm, 14 Aug 2019
1,226 posts
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MsG
I know not everyone is out to the advantage but I've certainly experienced sex based abuse/harassment/intimidation from an early age. Not the same experience as you but parallel may be?
It has made me very wary of people in general and men in particular (sorry all the nice chaps out there). I suspect this is one of the reasons my husband is someone who has often been mistaken for a woman, with us for a same sex couple*. We've had nasty / salacious comments based on that mistake too.
*This mistake doesn't bother me I should point out but he finds it frustrating as he doesn't actually look that feminine.
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Aug 2019
8:15pm, 14 Aug 2019
1,227 posts
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MsG
^that was to 1step
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