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Aug 2019
1:28pm, 14 Aug 2019
11,226 posts
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Badger
Agree also with the top of this page.
Without any criticism of Jovi's preferred terms, I rather like cis as a coinage; it comes from cis and trans in chemical nomenclature, where it means two groups are either on the same side or opposite side of an inflexible molecule with two possible mirror-image structures, and it's just saying "same gender you were born". We need some agreed term to draw the distinction, and it really isn't implying anything that "natal (wo)man" doesn't. But most of the time, we don't need to use the term at all - it's really only in discussion like this (where, again, from time to time Jovi has used "natal woman" for clarity of expression).
So, in theory it's OK to run any old qualifying race so you qualify for Western States & that's OK. That seems grossly unfair to female athletes.
I'm not sure you're familiar the details of WSER qualification. It's not like Boston qualification; it is a set of 100km+ races with a requirement to complete either within the race's overall cut-off time, or a shorter limit set by WSER. The limits are the same for men and women, and are just there to assess the entrant's ability to complete the WSER course within its own limits. There aren't any ultras with different cut-off finish limits for men and women.
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Aug 2019
1:29pm, 14 Aug 2019
11,227 posts
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Badger
Oops, previous page. Thread moving fast.
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Aug 2019
1:34pm, 14 Aug 2019
776 posts
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Trin
Badger, shouldn't it mean same gender you were 'biologically' born, because my transgender daughter was born female even though biologically in a male body, and I think all transgender people would argue the same of their own experience
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Aug 2019
1:38pm, 14 Aug 2019
11,228 posts
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Badger
Yes, agreed, sorry.
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Aug 2019
1:44pm, 14 Aug 2019
3,021 posts
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Raemond
One of the main reasons for adopting 'cis' is that a lot of the other terms people tend to use have more or less subtly offensive implications or aren't particularly accurate, as well as being more cumbersome.
For my money, for example, 'natal (wo)man' is a) inaccurate as, if we're using the 'how words are used by normal people in day to day life' test, man or woman most commonly refers to adults and nobody is born an adult,
and (much more importantly) b) implicitly undermines the lived experience of those who know that they have always been that gender, just that their external characteristics or the way they were raised were at odds with it.
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Aug 2019
1:59pm, 14 Aug 2019
4,460 posts
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The Scribbler
Slight sidebar to the athletics debate, but I am interested in the language and 'labelling' as language is one of my 'things'.
It seems to me that we're in a transition period with the language we use to talk about transgender people and issues to do with gender, sex and sexual preferences. This often happens with 'new' ideas and eventually some settled or terms become commonly agreed upon.
My own personal take on it is that I don't object to cisgender as a label and understand how it applies to me, but as others have said, I don't use it, largely because it's not relevant to my everyday conversations.
If I was talking with a group including transgender people, I would listen for the terms they use and adopt them OR ask what terms they would prefer me to use so that I could be clear in my meaning and not cause offence.
Language is always changing and flexing and how we use it can be powerful and emotive. Consider references to 'infestation and invasion' in political rhetoric around refugees. Or how a portion of the population of Rwanda were called 'cockroaches' during the genocide.
We may not always agree. We may not choose to all adopt the same terms, but we're Fetchies - let's be excellent to each other.
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Aug 2019
2:02pm, 14 Aug 2019
2,382 posts
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ThorntonRunner
+1
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Aug 2019
2:16pm, 14 Aug 2019
28,671 posts
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Mrs Jigs (Luverlylegs)
we're Fetchies - let's be excellent to each other (thank you Scribbler) 
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Aug 2019
2:18pm, 14 Aug 2019
724 posts
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Vixx
After a year of taking oestrogen and blockers, most transwomen are close to a zero testosterone level (or on their way to it).
Many if not all transwoman are desperate to have low or no testosterone, they are counting on it. They don't want to be men, and never have. But for an accident of birth they are stuck in a body that they don't want and never have.
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Aug 2019
2:19pm, 14 Aug 2019
725 posts
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Vixx
Agree - let's just be excellent to each other
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