Transgender Athletes

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auburnette Oct 2021 2:45pm, 1 Oct 2021 1,838 posts	0 auburnette Re open category for the listing of all results, I personally wouldn't like this because I do care about racing even though I am unlikely ever to place in anything other than local races and parkrun. It's already bad enough in races trying to figure out if there are any women ahead and if so how many of them, you're usually reliant on kind spectators (or fellow runners on out and back courses) telling you your placing (maybe I should seek out more women only races where it's easier to see who is ahead). This is a difficulty with age categories too I recognise. In the women's category, there is already arguably a lack of depth in many races compared to the men's field - this could be for many reasons including that women are less likely to want to run competitively (or able to commit to hard training because of competing demands) - but it's unlikely to be helped by making the category harder to identify given that male people will inexorably rise to the top of any open category and any mass start line. We have initiatives like This Girl Can specifically to try and encourage female participation in sports and so (and also because I am a passionate feminist) I am super opposed to anything which might dilute women's incentives or ability to participate in sport whether it's grassroots or elite.
RooA Oct 2021 2:53pm, 1 Oct 2021 1,532 posts	0 RooA I agree Auburnette. I would prefer a Female/Open model to a Universal model with a secret squirrel women's list. The F/O model might dilute the depth in the women's category though, just from women choosing to run up or to just not specify. There would be a risk of that for sure.
RooA Oct 2021 1:40pm, 2 Oct 2021 1,534 posts	0 RooA podcasts.apple.com A podcast about it with Prof Ross Tucker. I haven't listened yet but people might be interested.
The_Saint Oct 2021 3:58pm, 2 Oct 2021 6,892 posts	0 The_Saint I listened to it, very refreshing to hear someone concentrate on the science and cut through the bullshit.
paul the builder Oct 2021 10:56am, 7 Oct 2021 7,264 posts	0 paul the builder This could yet be a temporary issue as the next generation of trans people might only have one puberty and not two, thus have no real advantage or disadvantage I find this idea alarming, if I have understood it correctly.
RooA Oct 2021 9:05pm, 15 Oct 2021 1,550 posts	0 RooA Transwomen and male-born non-binary people are to be allowed to play ice hockey in the women's ice hockey league (PHL, recently rebounded from NWHL) in the US and Canada. nwhl.zone There does not appear to be any requirement for testosterone suppression in order to do so.
larkim Dec 2021 12:50pm, 2 Dec 2021 16,191 posts	0 larkim Another Ross Tucker podcast, this time an interview with De Emma Hilton who I believe has been quite vocal in the debate. play.acast.com Whilst I do like Tucker getting involved from the science perspective, I think he unwittingly strays into the "moral" or "ethics" area too much. I can see that the science does appear to give a clear answer, but then he strays into the fairness and equality areas with a similarly scientific perspective. Maybe that's unfair to expect him to just sit to the side and say "that's the science, I don't care about the ethics" though. Other developments - IOC has developed a policy / framework which has been criticised theguardian.com
paul the builder Dec 2021 1:20pm, 2 Dec 2021 7,345 posts	0 paul the builder What do you think Ross Tucker gets into that you think he shouldn't? I'm not sure I can think of an example of what (I think) you're saying.
SPR Dec 2021 1:52pm, 2 Dec 2021 35,830 posts	0 SPR Not listened to that specific podcast but I agree with Paul having listened to a lot of what Ross has said. I don't think the IOC guidance makes much sense TBH.
RooA Dec 2021 4:56pm, 2 Dec 2021 1,681 posts	0 RooA fetcheveryone.com/blog-share.php?id=437664 I wrote some thoughts about the IOC guidelines in a blog. Thanks for the podcast link, larkim. I've been meaning to catch up with that. Why do you feel Ross Tucker shouldn't comment on the ethics?