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May 2008
12:06pm, 7 May 2008
16,934 posts
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Hendo
Worked for me Greg.
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May 2008
12:10pm, 7 May 2008
4,424 posts
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Lumsdoni
Greg, I found I had to do the hard sessions as well to see the benefit
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May 2008
12:11pm, 7 May 2008
16,935 posts
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Hendo
To add to that, I saw more benefit with the addition of hard sessions, but a caveat is that a decent base is required first.
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May 2008
12:13pm, 7 May 2008
749 posts
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GregP
I wasn't doing the hard sessions at all, then got crocked - think I still have a good base, mind.
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May 2008
12:19pm, 7 May 2008
758 posts
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Snapstinget
That HR training for ideots book says build base and then find out how hard it is to run at over 85% MHR 
Boo - I think you're right. In racing, don't even look at HR. But I do believe that keeping everything but hard training sessions and racing under 70% is the right approach really.
However, to be heretical - unless you are actively building mileage, why bother to do any stuff under 70 anyway??? Why not do what Frank Shorter says -- 2 killer sessions a week and then 2 hours or 20 miles on Sunday, whichever comes first? (Mind you he then adds that anything else should be at around 60-70%, as much as your body can take ...)
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May 2008
12:23pm, 7 May 2008
4,426 posts
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Lumsdoni
I enjoy running. I did a 61% session last night, whether it was for a purpose is a moot point really, I enjoy it so i rewarded myself with an easy run after a hard session the night before.
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May 2008
12:30pm, 7 May 2008
13,707 posts
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Greg, it does get confusing because it is all too easy to get sucked into just running slowly or at least too easy all the time.
When anyone first starts running we all try to get them to build up a good solid base first, this requires nice steady miles and plenty of them to get all the connective tissues, ligaments etc conditioned to running and of course to build the aerobic base conditioning.
Once you have done that then you need to work on doing harder stuff and tis is where it becomes hard because people who have used HRM training have been used to running at less than or just on 70% WHR and running to effort rather than pace.
Now when they want to get faster we are telling them to do stuff that seemingly goes against everything that was drilled into them in the early days. That is to work hard, make it feel hard and run to pace if you want rather than effort, this will make you better in race situations where there are hills for example...
SO assuming you have a decent base built up already all you have to do then is
1. Start off with one session per week as a speed session and cane it hard, don't let yourself run steady at all. Plan the session be it intervals or tempo runs and stick to it, don't stray from teh planned session. It will hurt but you will benefit from it. When you have got that into your routine and have got used to it then you can add a second session, say hill work or threshold runs maybe...
2. Do the long run at the weekend. Some weeks do it all at one pace if you like BUT do it at a comfortable but not too slow pace. Some weeks split the run up into easy, hard and harder sections if you want, finish off with an easy buit though preferably.
Now all that I just mentioned is the basic all round training plan in broad strokes.
For 5k improvements you need something like 1k repeats done at race pace with recoveries in between for example. Over time reduce the recoveries. The key is fight against going slow. Plan sessions where you will give it your all no matter what. Get well out of your comfort zone and don't worry about it, learn to enjoy it and look forward to these sessions. You will also look forward to the nice steay runs for recovery etc.
I hope my ramblings have helped...
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May 2008
12:52pm, 7 May 2008
755 posts
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GregP
Helped? Ian, your 'ramblings' are in the process of being printed to stick in my Filofax (yes, I still use one). Many thanks.
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May 2008
12:58pm, 7 May 2008
13,708 posts
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You are welcome Greg
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May 2008
1:39pm, 7 May 2008
2,081 posts
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Pammie
Wow - This threads really come alive
Hendo - a couple of points
In my last 5km i just treated it like a stop watch, i like the post race analysis but i didn't look at it during the race, just ran hard as i could
2nd most important i don't know if you are a talker but if you can talk, you need to run faster, till you can't talk anymore
I, like a few of the others here run most (nearly all) of my miles below 70%, well nearer 60 than 70 and i still find myself getting faster i have started doing some fast stuff and believe me it is v hard to get to 85%, took me to my 3rd rep to do so today
Really good advice from Ian - Thanks
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