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Aug 2019
10:23am, 16 Aug 2019
4 posts
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Gee-Rizzle
I would add that I agree that transwomen should not compete competitively in female sport if it is proven that they have an unfair physiological advantage. But those women are still women and have to be treated as such.
Not accepting a transwoman as a woman outside of competitive sport is illegal discrimination. There is a real danger that anti-transgender activists use sport as the thin end of the wedge, as a first step to discrimination against transgender individuals in other spheres.
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Aug 2019
10:26am, 16 Aug 2019
6,523 posts
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Jovi Runner
GeeRizzle - no realistic increase risk to cis women - really? Even if you are fully supportive of transideology that is a completely disengenious argument not to mention compeltely untrue and a theory that has been absolutely debunked and disproven on many an occassion and following many scientificly significant researched studies. Female born women throughout human history have not suffered prejudice due to their gender identity but their biology.
Again, why are these posters repeatedly jumping into this thread and reverting back to the old bathrooms for transmwoen issues when those of us here are trying to have a sensible and informed debate about transgender athletes in women's sport - could these psoters, dare I say it, have another agenda to push?
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Aug 2019
10:28am, 16 Aug 2019
6,524 posts
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Jovi Runner
GeeRizzle - no one is discriminating against transgender people - they are free to participate in sport, have careers etc. That does not then mean female born women have to accept them as woman becasue they tell us to.
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Aug 2019
10:32am, 16 Aug 2019
5 posts
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Gee-Rizzle
Jovi, not accepting transwomen as women is the literal legal definition of discrimination against gender reassignment.
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Aug 2019
10:33am, 16 Aug 2019
3,474 posts
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westmoors
I don't believe there is such a thing as a level playing field in sport. Even if I compare myself to another biological female in my age group, I still cannot be certain I am comparing apples with apples as that person may have a physiological advantage over me either through nature (genetics) and/or nurture (opportunities whilst growing up).
Personally I feel there is a fear/worry over something that might not even become an issue. Going back to Fetch's numbers, it seems the proportion of transwomen taking part in female sport is low and will probably remain that way. I really can't see men declaring themselves as female just to gain a sporting advantage, as that actually goes against the meaning of the word sport 
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Aug 2019
10:37am, 16 Aug 2019
1,249 posts
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bonners
@fetch, I see an alternative scenario. I don't think we will ever be talking huge numbers, but I coulb envisage a world five years from now where one or two athletes could be competing at the pointy end and given thee inherent advantages of the make up of how they were born, along with them being the odd individual who also happens to be exceptionally talented, then they could be sweeping up the medals.
I also think it will become more prevalent at grass roots level sport, again, not by a mass of individuals, but by one or two talented runners who also have the advantage of having gone through being born a male. I think the odd ones will be enough to start putting women off taking up sport. I have seen nothing in this debate that genuinely addresses those concerns.
I would have previously thought that common sense says this wouldn't happen, but I have been shocked to see it does already happen.
It is interesting that the debate directly affects women. I wonder how quick the rules would change if it was found that women transitioning to men were somehow gaining an advantage? They'd be uproar and a complete rules overhaul in six months.
As I've read more on this thread and around the subject, I feel my views on sports have definitely changed. I never realised it was that much of an issue. But it would appear that results are being skewed with people having an unfair advantage.
As for parkrun, again, definitely middle ground plodder here, but I'm sure I would be miffed if my record was taken by someone who had transitioned from male to female
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Aug 2019
10:41am, 16 Aug 2019
6,525 posts
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Jovi Runner
You don't think people might lieto gain an advantage in sport if ther eis money to be women to be won - Russian doping scandal, state endorsed doping by Eastern European countries in the 80s, Justin Gatlin, Marian Jones, Lance Armstrong to name only the ones that initially spring to mind.
As I think someone posted earlier in this thread -one of the reasons that the female protected category was introduced was for the very reason women had been dressing up as men to gain access to women's sport. If there is no future requirement even to have surgery but just self ID why would men not do this again when it has been clearly demonstrated that it has been done in the past.
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Aug 2019
10:44am, 16 Aug 2019
6,526 posts
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Jovi Runner
oops - dratted auto correct - men had been dressing up as women!
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Aug 2019
10:48am, 16 Aug 2019
6,527 posts
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Jovi Runner
bonners - well said, if men were being affected you can bet that there'd be uproar.
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Aug 2019
10:53am, 16 Aug 2019
4,954 posts
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jda
None of the parallels are perfect but as I've mentioned there are numerous cases of people undergoing surgical enhancement for sporting purposes and/or having unnatural advantages, in both men's and women's sport. Oscar Pistorius is another case in point. I didn't see uproar and a completely rules upheaval, admittedly he turned out to be not quite good enough but I saw a reasonable process of discussion and debate over a difficult topic (without necessarily agreeing with all decisions). I wonder why there aren't more men getting their legs chopped off if the benefits of winning races are so great.
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