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Aug 2019
6:45pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,648 posts
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Serendippily
No absolutely not that would be unfair to the competition. Which is my point. Just because you are transgender you are not necessarily a threat to the women’s competition
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Aug 2019
6:49pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,649 posts
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Serendippily
If I ruled the world .. I think I would say if you wanted to place in any women’s competition or use your position to qualify for an elite race as a women, then you may be required to meet additional criteria. And I would make those criteria generous to the protection of women’s sport but based on the best research can currently do to impartially judge where the risks might lie. And I would make those criteria subject to regular review.
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Aug 2019
6:53pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,650 posts
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Serendippily
And those criterion would not be solely based on if you were transgender. If you are an asthma sufferer and regularly take medication linked to improving performance in your sport even you might suffer. Testosterone levels might come into play too. But I would do my best to make those criterion clear upfront on the grounds if you can’t be fair at least be clear and be transparent about the opportunity to question these criterion upfront.
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Aug 2019
6:58pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,511 posts
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Jovi Runner
I completely agree Serendipidty. Decisions should be made based on the research & available evidence at the time which is exactly the point made in the video I posted. The research carried out to date & summarised in the transcript I posted clearly demonstrates an advantage as the outcome from the scientific research the IOC had available to them. So if we are to rely on the data currently available then M-F should not be permitted to compete (at any level) in the protected female class.
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Aug 2019
6:58pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,651 posts
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Serendippily
And I would always make it possible not to declare your gender if you don’t want to. I think that’s me out 
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Aug 2019
7:08pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,652 posts
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Serendippily
Depends what you mean by compete. If you are not going to be a threat to the placements or the elite you can compete as much as you like in my world and even then it’s subject to the definition of fair not about being transgender per se. But I’m glad we agree before it gets all brexity I think more discussion rather than less is good. But I hope we have not harmed the enthusiasm or mental health of any runners during the making of this thread
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Aug 2019
11:46pm, 15 Aug 2019
7,894 posts
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Duchess
I'm not sure reading 48 pages of this thread in one go has done any good for my blood pressure.
Transwomen are women, transmen are men, they might have taken a different route to get there from the majority fortunate to have been born into bodies that fully match their psyche, but if you end up in the right place that's what counts. If that life gives them some biological advantage over others well, so what? Michael Philps has unnatural arm length, Kenyans have lived at altitude for generations, Kilian Jornet has an insanely high VO2 Max - that's what makes them elites. Geography, biology, genetics, lived experience - all stuff that makes some people better athletes.
Life's too short to get uptight about other people's genitalia. In a couple of generations, out grandkids are going to be looking back and going "really? How on earth could you think stuff so ridiculous?" and coming up with new ways to be human that we haven't even dreamt of yet...
In the meantime, just be nice to one another.
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Aug 2019
3:26am, 16 Aug 2019
42,774 posts
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Velociraptor
Interesting, Duchess. It appears to me that you're telling us that female athletes and society as a whole should accept without further discussion that transwomen at all stages of the gender reassignment process, and therefore by implication those who remain anatomically, biochemically, and physiologically male, should be allowed to compete at all levels of sport as women without any form of regulation, and it is unreasonable of us not to celebrate their victories, because the fact that they have a male body is just like any other biological advantage such as having long arms or a high VO2max. Would this be an accurate interpretation?
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Aug 2019
6:28am, 16 Aug 2019
6,512 posts
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Jovi Runner
Ditto to what V'rap said.
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Aug 2019
6:39am, 16 Aug 2019
6,513 posts
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Jovi Runner
Coming up with new ways of being human. If that wasn't so ridiculously anti scientific it would be funny.
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