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Aug 2019
5:08pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,505 posts
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Jovi Runner
V'rap - let's hope so for the future of women's sport.
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Aug 2019
5:13pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,639 posts
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Serendippily
Jovi re my 13638 you see no issue with Semenya competing then? I thought this was still mainly about testosterone. As the other adv re disadv I see as generalised truths ie it is not blanket about hip size or upbringing and it is only of relevance to the extent it undermines fairness in that particular competition. So if for example you happen to have been born with negligible levels of testosterone and identify as a woman you may not be the same challenge to fairness as someone with incredibly high levels. I don’t think one size fits all here
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Aug 2019
5:14pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,640 posts
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Serendippily
And trin fantastic recovery and you never know when a Kenyan will cone along and smash your age cat record 
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Aug 2019
5:15pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,506 posts
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Jovi Runner
CasterSemenya is not a transgender athlete so see no reason to discuss that issue on this thread.
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Aug 2019
5:17pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,641 posts
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Serendippily
Jovi if testosterone is relevant so are women who challenge those levels of testosterone
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Aug 2019
5:20pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,642 posts
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Serendippily
You are saying it is very simple to define who is female and who is not and therefore who can fairly compete as female. I would like to see the argument reversed: what conditions do we regard as fair to compete as a female in this sport. If you meet them you may compete. The rest is irrelevant.
and Synge thank you for the update
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Aug 2019
5:20pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,507 posts
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Jovi Runner
Serendipity - I have never said it was all about testosterone. That is one marker & in the absence of the IOC taking into account any other physical characters is a start in comparing relative advanrage/disadvantage males have. However there are many more physical advantages that the male body possesses even post transition/taking of estrogen. I am no medical expert which is why I tend to respect those that are & have done their scientific research as the academic has in the video link I posted has rather than just accepting as fact what im told to accept without question.
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Aug 2019
5:26pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,508 posts
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Jovi Runner
It is very simple - in the current climate not possibly the socially acceptable thing to say there is a difference but throughout human history we've managed to quite easily identify the difference between a man & a woman. A as a woman I am not compelled to accept makes can become females. I have no doubt transwoman genuinely feel they are woman but as a woman I am not forced to accept their opinion or am I?
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Aug 2019
5:27pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,509 posts
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Jovi Runner
But back to topic. This thread is about whether transgender athletes maintain an advantage post transition so perhaps we should keep to that topic.
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Aug 2019
5:37pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,643 posts
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Serendippily
That makes sense. But as I’ve said I feel much more comfortable if this was all about what is fair in terms of women’s competition. And I don’t believe that will be the same for all competitions. And I would hate to see people excluded from competing or barred from participating if there is no justification in their particular circumstances. And I would wish to minimise the barriers linked to having to declare as trans if there is not an explicit reason to do so.
I fully accept I am talking from the back of the pack where there are a different set of risks to those at the front.
Early on Jovi you made reference to the importance of running for mental health. Despite our skill differences we have commonality there and my fears are more that people who would find pleasure and mental relief from sport are hampered from participating and made to feel unwelcome in circumstances where this serves no good purpose. Please accept this does NOT mean I miss your point about unfair advantage or feel you are wrong or unjustified in raising it
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