Transgender Athletes
97 watchers
Aug 2019
3:28pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,498 posts
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Jovi Runner
At what speed should we regard ourselves as mediocre therefore not worth competing?
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Aug 2019
3:31pm, 15 Aug 2019
22,571 posts
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fetcheveryone
Bonners - here is my source: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk
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Aug 2019
3:34pm, 15 Aug 2019
13,638 posts
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Serendippily
I’m glad you’re still posting fozzy I’m finding this thread difficult and I’d be open to a poll. The lovely Dina trains with boys doesn’t she. I think there is a difference between grass roots where you want everyone encouraged - and i’d put parkrun in that category - and competitions where there are prizes at stake where winners have to accept the basis of protected categories as defined by the organisers. I would want to see challenge only where it is unfair. And this would bring us back to the difficult area of Semenya who did not identify as male for the obvious reason she has no visible male genitalia but whose testosterone levels are out of kilter with what is currently defined as a female range, and who is talented at running and who trains incredibly hard. I want her to be able to run somehow. I do not have an answer about how to resolve this but anything that means women turn against women on the grounds they are not women enough is very upsetting
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Aug 2019
3:35pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,872 posts
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Jambomo
I think that it’s not really the standard of a persons running but possibly the competitive nature of the person JDA. Sure the difference between last and not last isn’t much (my normal area of the field!) but for people who are competitive then it makes a world of difference. I personally am not much bothered between the difference and wouldn’t care too much but I completely understand why people would be aggrieved. I also agree with jovi that the default shouldn’t be that transgender compete with women, it needs to be looked at much more thoroughly than that. |
Aug 2019
3:36pm, 15 Aug 2019
265 posts
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Non-runner
I don’t think you have to be in a position to potentially win stuff to agree with Jovi about the principle of unfairness of cis women being asked to compete against people with such huge developmental advantages as testosterone at puberty, narrower pelvises, much lower safe fat levels etc. I’m not a para athlete for example but would hate to see them pitted against able bodies athletes on the grounds that it’s not fair.
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Aug 2019
3:36pm, 15 Aug 2019
1,244 posts
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bonners
Cheers fetch, trying to find the Guardian article, my Google powers are weak. I have a figure of 400k in my head for some reason. Having said that if there is one person that directly affects your own results then I guess numbers are immaterial. |
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Aug 2019
3:38pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,873 posts
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Jambomo
Does growing up as a male, with associated testosterone levels etc produce biological effects that would be advantageous to athletes that cannot be undone by reducing testosterone levels? What I mean is are there any other advantages (beyond increased athletic opportunities) biologically gained from spending many years growing up as a male? |
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Aug 2019
3:39pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,874 posts
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Jambomo
Indeed, I agree non-runner.
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Aug 2019
3:40pm, 15 Aug 2019
22,572 posts
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fetcheveryone
Returning to TommyK's point a few pages back... one of the issues with the "open + female" categorisation is that competing in the former category relies on trans women feeling safe enough to make the information public.
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Aug 2019
3:40pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,499 posts
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Jovi Runner
fetch - where there is money/prestige to be won as dwminstarted time over people will go to extreme lengths to win prizes. Unless safeguards are put in place women's sport is dead. While the IOC rules offer some protection 're testosterone reduction if self ID came in there would be no requirement to even take any actions as a man other than saying your were a women to be accepted into the female class. It does not take a big stretch of imagination to see just how open to abuse. I have posted information from a genetic biologist who has researched & prsented the evidence the IOC used & which shows clear male advantage remains post transition. I invited anyone to post an opposing view citing relevant papers but to date no has pointed me to any alternative scientific studies showing no male advantage persists. |
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