Transgender Athletes

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Jovi Runner Aug 2019 6:13pm, 14 Aug 2019 6,470 posts	0 Jovi Runner 1step2far - I know genuine trans people are not a threat. I'm really sorry females have treated you so badly - that is completely unacceptable. My concerns lie in self ID which would allow females have to accept any man who said he was a woman to accept he was which I genuinely believe would be exploited & would actually make life more difficult for genuine transgender people.
Goofee Aug 2019 6:14pm, 14 Aug 2019 2,888 posts	0 Goofee This is an immensely informative thread, thanks particularly to Thornton Runner, Vixx and now 1step2far for sharing so openly and improving my understanding, I'm very grateful. Such bravery can only improve understanding in general and broaden minds, hopefully, moving us towards acceptance and solutions.
Jovi Runner Aug 2019 6:17pm, 14 Aug 2019 6,471 posts	0 Jovi Runner fozzy- you might not also be aware there has been a huge increase in woman being abused/harassed in mixed sex facilities.
1step2far Aug 2019 6:28pm, 14 Aug 2019 4,036 posts	0 1step2far I agree those that want to exploit it will make things harder for those that are genuine. BUT Knowing what I know, just from being butch and gay. WHY would they? There is so much negativity there are easier ways- both to gain athletic titles or to gain entry to women only spaces. Trust me. Unless you REALLY REALLY want this you just don't it. The embarrassment. The hassle. The filthy looks of disgust. Double checking yourself as you enter and leave the ladies toilets. The snide remarks The security guards that have an extra thorough search. Drunken strangers saying they can change me, I've just not met the right man yet (meaning them. Often sleezy as anything) And I'm just butch. Which is socially acceptable. Trans people suffer 1000 times more. No one does this for titles. Or for kicks.
1step2far Aug 2019 6:31pm, 14 Aug 2019 4,037 posts	0 1step2far I've been persuading people that it's ok for me to go in to women's changing rooms for 30 years (I'm now 38). I've spent my entire life saying I'm not some predator about to jump them as the wrestle out of their sports bras. If people want to do bad things they will. But there are easier ways.
Velociraptor Aug 2019 6:34pm, 14 Aug 2019 42,751 posts	0 Velociraptor As a girl who was not conspicuous in any way, I was also attacked (not sexually, unless having the cubicle curtain pulled back while I was changing counts) by other girls in the swimming pool changing room when I was in my early teens. Something that wouldn't have happened if it had been a unisex changing room and my father, who took me swimming, had been within earshot. I have never felt at risk in a mixed changing facility.
HellsBells Aug 2019 6:40pm, 14 Aug 2019 25,640 posts	0 HellsBells I would be interested to see any actual evidence of increased attacks on women in mixed sex changing spaces that isn't hearsay or anecdote. There is a lot of hysteria around these issues which has consequences of its own. I am aware of one swimming pool which tried to address the fact that a disproportionate number of youngsters who drown are of Muslim origin and girls in particular as they often don't learn to swim. This pool set aside half an hour once a week for women only lessons with female instructors. A debate arose in the local press over whether men might try and access these sessions by saying they were trans. The girls stopped coming and the sessions stopped. It then transpired that the people raising all the fuss in the first place had never been to the pool and had no intention of attending and we're raising "academic argument". The pool confirmed that no male had ever tried to access the sessions. And the girls still can't swim.
MsG Aug 2019 6:41pm, 14 Aug 2019 1,218 posts	0 MsG If anyone wants some examples of access to women only spaces being abused I can provide a list. Alternatively have a look in FWR on Mumsnet where these are documented.
MsG Aug 2019 6:46pm, 14 Aug 2019 1,219 posts	0 MsG It will never happen mumsnet.com
Jovi Runner Aug 2019 6:51pm, 14 Aug 2019 6,472 posts	0 Jovi Runner I also assume that mixed sex facilities be definition exclude Muslim woman as they aren't permitted to share facilities with men - whether they are attending a women only swim session or a mixed session?