The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
333 watchers
Mar 2022
1:27pm, 8 Mar 2022
17,279 posts
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larkim
Yep, that's a whole other thread topic isn't it; "what's the point of MP miles". That's why I highlighted the mental aspect as for me that's where I do see the value.
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Mar 2022
1:29pm, 8 Mar 2022
4,590 posts
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clare1976
Interesting. I've often done a half at mp effort 3 weeks out from a marathon with a 7-8 mile warm up, and have the same planned for this coming weekend. I've not found recovery from it to be an issue or detrimental. I wouldn't race a 20 in build-up though...
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Mar 2022
1:38pm, 8 Mar 2022
76,179 posts
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Gobi
I hope you don't mind me popping in and dropping this session to consider - usually the last or 2nd last long run One of two key sessions I use when coaching is this 2hrs to 2.30 easy (don't use this session for anyone slower than 3.30) then about 8 miles at MP end with 8 to 10mins easy. Idea - The run takes about as long as you plan to take in the marathon so you experience a race time run(time not miles) Purpose - simply put anyone can run 12 miles or 15miles at MP in training but often we fail to do MP when actually tired. Although not MP tired there is a level of natural fatigue that comes after 2hrs of running so fueling become relevant on this run as well. |
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Mar 2022
2:24pm, 8 Mar 2022
17,280 posts
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larkim
Nice, can't beat a bit of free coaching Gobi  Though that could end up as a 24-25 mile run if I'm doing the maths properly (150mins at 9min/mile = 16.7m plus 8m plus 1m cooldown? Maybe the 2hr end of the spectrum would be more appropriate for a 22m session? I do tend to do the MP runs within LRs as the final chunk which echoes that thought about the MP on tired legs being the issue. That was also my logic in the 5 with 15 at MP in a 20m race environment as it means I also get to test out the mechanics of carrying gels, consuming gels and water etc without the hit of post-event fatigue that would come with racing a 20m. |
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Mar 2022
2:44pm, 8 Mar 2022
4,591 posts
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clare1976
Interesting, Gobi, thank you. I'm tempted to do my 7-8 miles beforehand easy, then as the half starts, build into mp rather than going at that pace from the off for the full13.1. So I'll finish faster and stronger all being well, but the mp will be on tired legs. Then a short jog after the race. Good food for thought...
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Mar 2022
3:50pm, 8 Mar 2022
76,182 posts
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Gobi
Yes larks 24 or so Clare - 8 miles into half and race the half is interesting from an effort point of view as you a sub MP at 20 miles which hurts the legs then add a couple afterwards. Another good run. We used to have a saying MP is too fast to do all your training at but too slow to be really classed as speedwork. |
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Mar 2022
4:32pm, 8 Mar 2022
17,281 posts
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larkim
Oooff!! 24 is a generous ask! Love the ambition of that, and the specificity in relation to marathon running. Whether I'm brave enough to find myself out with that is another thing though! I'm guessing it's the sort of session that can only really be achieved late into the training cycle (for a hobbyist like me who isn't in a permanent state of "I could go out and jog a marathon tomorrow if I wanted to")? My alternative and unvoiced thought was a "Gobi 20" progressing each 5 miles to a step up in pace again finishing strong. (Apologies if the naming is inaccurate, but that's what I tell myself it is in my head). I've done that once successfully and once unsuccessfully, mainly down to route choice I think. (This one, just prior to Manchester being cancelled last time around - fetcheveryone.com/training/17180144/miles/5 ) |
Mar 2022
4:50pm, 8 Mar 2022
15 posts
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Wilding2004
Chrisull What did you think of the medal? We (Hayle Runners) have tried really hard the last 2 Duchy20's, to give out a really high quality bit of bling. Also yeah I agree about the course changes making the 2nd half tougher. The main reason for the change was traffic problems around Morrisons and Tesco's. I ran it for the first time. Mainly as a training run for Brighton. So I was really happy with the result and how that looks for the marathon. Hope you enjoyed the race overall. surprise bottle of wine for 3rd in my age category. They changed the course yet again so second half was now notably more undulating with some not inconsiderable inclines although not what I'd call hills, but enough to slow pace, and also the last mile now is effectively the hardest in the race. |
Mar 2022
4:55pm, 8 Mar 2022
4,453 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
Oooff!! 24 is a generous ask! Love the ambition of that, and the specificity in relation to marathon running. Whether I'm brave enough to find myself out with that is another thing though! I'm guessing it's the sort of session that can only really be achieved late into the training cycle (for a hobbyist like me who isn't in a permanent state of "I could go out and jog a marathon tomorrow if I wanted to")? My alternative and unvoiced thought was a "Gobi 20" progressing each 5 miles to a step up in pace again finishing strong. (Apologies if the naming is inaccurate, but that's what I tell myself it is in my head). I've done that once successfully and once unsuccessfully, mainly down to route choice I think. (This one, just prior to Manchester being cancelled last time around - fetcheveryone.com/training/17180144/miles/5 ) Larks, this is why Gobi gets frustrated with you. He *tells* you where in the cycle it goes!
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Mar 2022
5:04pm, 8 Mar 2022
17,282 posts
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larkim
Aha, no - there was some nuance to my question - "I'm guessing it's the sort of session that can only be *achieved* late in the cycle" echoing Gobi's point that this is the last or penultimate long run effort. It was the reality of being able to complete it rather than purpose or benefit that I was wondering about. Maybe dancing on the head of a pin though. But I'm glad you're frustrated on Gobi's behalf!!
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