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Mar 2022
8:18pm, 8 Mar 2022
5,402 posts
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Windsor Wool
Honestly, this thread got obsessed over the years with the idea of the slow long run being the answer to everything. A number of us profited far more from some structure in the LRs as Gobi suggests. Sure, you can’t do 24 with the last 8 at MP every week if you’re doing midweek sessions as well but I feel like the idea of structured long runs is rejected here just too often.
We should check in with the faster runners. Yes, there’s a place for the long, endurance building run but don’t be shy of structure too. Check JDA’s log, or Ant Clark’s.
And yeah, now it’s me that’s frustrated!
So lark. What you actually gonna do?
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Mar 2022
8:51pm, 8 Mar 2022
17,283 posts
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larkim
Hmm. As I've not yet been over 20 miles I think 24 might make me anxious. I'll see how work goes and make a choice on Friday between bog standard 20, 20 with last 5 at MP+, "Gobi 20" progressing to 7:10-20 or the 22m version of Gobi's suggested session.
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Mar 2022
8:58pm, 8 Mar 2022
4,454 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
Not sure I said it wasn't the right session, WW. However, as always, different works for different folks. 🙂
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Mar 2022
9:15pm, 8 Mar 2022
76,187 posts
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Gobi
Can't beat a nice 5 mile block 20 to feel some effort
I wont mention the over distance work Larks :¬)
Good luck everyone, I shall leave you to it
Gobi
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Mar 2022
9:45pm, 8 Mar 2022
17,285 posts
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larkim
Thanks for dropping by Gobi!
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Mar 2022
9:48pm, 8 Mar 2022
36,411 posts
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SPR
It's a good point by WW. I guess if building up initially no frills longs are the way forward as they are overload enough but as you progress more is likely needed.
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Mar 2022
10:44pm, 8 Mar 2022
12,126 posts
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jda
I'd say you can do anything you want 3 weeks out, short of a 20 mile flat out race. Plenty of time to recover!
My legs are pretty sore from Sunday's HM which was 4 weeks out. I'll be doing another tough run this weekend and probably a reasonably long steady one at 2 weeks (doubt it will be as much as 20 miles though, more like 18 I guess, no more than 2h30).
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Mar 2022
1:05pm, 9 Mar 2022
1,574 posts
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Big_G
Larkim, I also think you can do anything 3 weeks out. Elsewhere, in the last few days, you said you are not bothered about the odd 2% here or there as long as you have never detonated in any race (or something like that). Agonising over the intricacies of the differences between sessions for a one off session in a whole training block would make far less difference than a 2% change in time, either way. Just do whatever you feel you can handle to give you some of the confidence you say you need, don't knacker yourself, don't get injured and aim to toe the start line feeling good. We are all different, but if it was me, I would race it and if I felt it was a representative time I would use that in the pace calculators to dial in my MP for race day.
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Mar 2022
1:38pm, 9 Mar 2022
17,293 posts
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larkim
Good spot Big_G. The more I think about it, the more I refine the question into "what can I do between now and race day to give me confidence that my pacing strategy on that day will give me a good race experience" which ties into that point about not ever wanting to detonate.
One way of getting confidence is the crowd sourced "there's nothing you can do between now and then which will make a material training difference" which I'm definitely getting from this thread.
The other way of getting confidence is physically doing something which inherently gives me confidence such as a lengthy MP run or a long run with some structure to it.
So far in this campaign I've notched up 435 miles which is only 15 miles behind my "best ever" training window (Manchester 2020, Covid cancelled) and 60 miles more than when I did Chester 2017 (PB). I might be a little behind in overall pace compared to Manchester 2020, but I am pretty much there or thereabouts in terms of comparable pace with Chester 2017, so that's all good solid confidence stuff. I am also a more level headed runner than 5 years ago (despite forum postings!).
All of that feed into the confidence piece; and as those who give me a sandbagging reputation will probably point out, when I'm posting on here that I might turn my ambitions to a PB then that probably indicates rising confidence.
So maybe I do just need to rest on my laurels, look at the data, change nothing and "trust the process" and that will all build the right level of confidence so that when I set off in Manchester I can give myself a 8 out of 10 chance of success of hitting that target.
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Mar 2022
2:36pm, 9 Mar 2022
36,412 posts
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SPR
Three weeks out can make a difference fitness wise although it's obviously the combination of training rather than just the one session on its own The impulse of training in the taper can allow the gains from the weeks earlier to solidify even if it is just maintenance training. If you did the session then stopped training for three weeks then the session is pointless, but you won't do that.
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RW sub3/3.15
Jan 2025
