Sub 19 Min 5k Thread

57 watchers

larkim Jun 2017 1:41pm, 16 Jun 2017 2,231 posts	0 larkim I missed the chance for a 5k at the County Champs this year (it was added as a new event), but I was too busy resting my legs post-Sandstone Trail. I've also only got one shot at 3000m on the track this year as I'll miss each local league match bar one, but that might be fun I could do with revising my parkrun PB at some point now, 19:30 was set a long time ago and I still put an * next to it as the results had a failure that day so they asked me for my time. I gave them an honest one, but I'd much rather have them give me the time rather than me make one up. Though my achilles is telling me to stop doing this silly short distance running today (not badly, but enough to remind me to do the heel drops), so perhaps I should step away from the speed and move back to slogging along!
larkim Apr 2018 10:00am, 11 Apr 2018 4,317 posts	0 larkim Thought I'd resurrect this as I've just this week come up with an intention to try to make a second foray into the sub 19 territory. Last year the 5k PB came off the back of an unstructured increase in mileage with a view to running a 33 mile ultra, but since then a structured P&D 35-55 plan assault on the marathon was successful resulting in a 38:44 10k PB and a 3:14 marathon. This year I'm P&D'ing on the same basis but with the 33 mile ultra as the objective, so whilst that isn't perfectly specified 5k training I fully expect it to deliver either the same or a better outcome for a 5k full on effort which I've got the chance to do at the end of April when the English 5k champs are once again on my doorstep. The County Champs also include a 5k track race this year which I'd have liked to have done, but that's on the Sunday after the 33 miler on the Saturday, so whilst I might enter for a laugh (and maybe DNS) I'm not going to be in PB shape that day! Anyone else eyeing up sub 19 as a target at the moment?
Curly45 Apr 2018 10:06am, 11 Apr 2018 3,543 posts	0 Curly45 Yes me! On Saturday I ran sub 19 on our club 3mile race which is VERY hilly. Usually that translates to the same 5k time, but obviously I will have to wait a little until I have recovered from Brighton marathon. I am also starting track training for a 5000m in September in a few weeks so am coming from the opposite end to you Larks I have an 11:03 3k so sub 19 should be possible, but its just finding a suitable week at the moment. I am impressed at the 10k time too larks! That is FAST. And should mean you sail under the 19...
chunkywizard Apr 2018 10:12am, 11 Apr 2018 5,621 posts	0 chunkywizard It's a 2018 goal for me also. Best this year is 19.22 (in the run up to Woky Half which I did 1:28:45). I'm doing track every week now and plan to hit parkrun hard as well when I'm feeling good.
Chrisull Apr 2018 10:32am, 11 Apr 2018 12,519 posts	0 Chrisull ~~strava~~ revealed unexpectedly I've actually managed this in a race! Disclosure: it had a lot of downhill. But still it was the second half of a 7 mile race.
Rog T Apr 2018 10:53am, 11 Apr 2018 165 posts	0 Rog T I'll be going for this as well in couple of months. Sneaked under last year unexpectedly and hope to prove that it wasn't a fluke after I've recovered from an early May marathon.
larkim Apr 2018 11:04am, 11 Apr 2018 4,318 posts	0 larkim LOL Curly, you're not the only one who was impressed with the 10k time - if anything I was more surprised to have cracked under 39 than I was to go sub 19 or get the 3:15 marathon time, I'd never in my wildest dreams think I could run back to back 19:22 5ks! For me it just proved that "marathon training" at the volume and intensity that something like the 35-55 plan describes is actually pretty well optimised for 5k or 10k times at my end of the spectrum. It's good enough for marathons (but in reality, its a massive compromise - there's no way 35-55 can ever be as good as 70+) within a given level of commitment, but it's more likely to result in a disproportionate improvement in 5k or 10k time as a by product. I'm sure it could be optimised further with a few tweaks to squeeze a few more seconds out if 10k or 5k really was your goal, but if you've got time for a 35-55 week plan and you want to nail a decent 10k the P&D marathon plan will get you pretty damned close to what a similar volume 10k plan would achieve. The 5k I've got in mind is net downhill - there was some discussion on FB a few months ago as to whether it really should be a valid PB course as it probably falls further than the limits prescribed for World Record / National Record courses. I hadn't really thought this through before, probably as most race courses I run will start and finish in more or less the same place simply from an organisational point of view, but for 5k races the tolerances are fairly small for following strict WR regulations (no more than 50% of race distance between start and finish and no more than 1m per km of net fall). In particular, the net fall means only 5m of elevation change between the start and the finish, and if your finish line is 1km away from the start (as it is on the Mid Cheshire 5k race) that's a fairly small tolerance to have to work within. Po10 and RBR don't take account of whether courses are record valid / invalid (as far as I know - certainly not routinely) and course measurement certificates don't explicitly state it either, so the course we're running is an official champs course, properly certified, but if a national record was set on it it would be ineligible. I suppose if your marathon PB was set at Boston (USA) you'd probably not discount it as a PB despite it not being record eligible?
clare1976 Apr 2018 11:13am, 11 Apr 2018 3,983 posts	0 clare1976 I'll keep lurking here. Need to get back to sub-20 first and make that a regular thing, then I'll think about this more seriously. But I am hoping longer term it could be an possibility for me..
Chrisull Apr 2018 11:34am, 11 Apr 2018 12,524 posts	0 Chrisull larks - if you're having a net downhill 5k, then I'm having my ~~strava~~ pb at 18.46 strava.com While we're at it, can I have my 3k pb at 10.17? strava.com Thought not :-p. Serious point here, downhill makes a lot of difference, hence the fairly fussy rules on 1m per km.
larkim Apr 2018 11:50am, 11 Apr 2018 4,320 posts	0 larkim Yep, I don't disagree, it hadn't really occurred to me before someone raised the issue with a grossly downhill 5k club race that was distorting club record history (for a club I've got no connection with). The point is, PBs aren't governed by WR certification rules and whilst IAAF lists do tend to flag for elites where times are set on ineligible courses etc, at our level it's rarely noted. And in many cases you won't even know about it. I also think it is reasonably rare as it requires start and finish to be in different places. Even the course measurement details on the web don't disclose the amount of net downhill - coursemeasurement.org.uk Similarly, if you have a GFA time set on a net downhill marathon course, I don't think VLM take it into account - I know for certain that Boston BQ times are often obtained by US runners on very, very net downhill marathons. My honest assessment is that for someone like me, the extra 4 or 5 m of elevation drop on this course probably makes max 5s difference, but equally there is some uphill in the course which might cost some time compared to a completely pan flat lincolnshire style course. But my time on it starts with an 18, it's accurately measured as to the distance, so it's remaining my 5k PB!!