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Dec 2019
9:37am, 13 Dec 2019
1,657 posts
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JRitchie
Stolen from a friends post on Facebook I want to share.
“Hope is not a lottery ticket you can sit on the sofa and clutch, feeling lucky. It is an axe you break down doors with in an emergency. Hope should shove you out the door, because it will take everything you have to steer the future away from endless war, from the annihilation of the earth's treasures and the grinding down of the poor and marginal... To hope is to give yourself to the future - and that commitment to the future is what makes the present inhabitable.”
― Rebecca Solnit, Hope in the Dark
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Dec 2019
9:38am, 13 Dec 2019
75 posts
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Daft Vader
I wasn't here for much of it, but I gather Stander got a lot of abuse thrown his way for holding and expressing what - given last night's result - is clearly a majority viewpoint.
I wouldn't particularly condemn him if he wanted to have his moment in the sun.
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Dec 2019
9:39am, 13 Dec 2019
1,495 posts
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um
Chrisull - I think you are underestimating the momentum/marxism hit - that, Corbyn is often seen as the puppet figurehead for that. So I suspect Labour needs to move to a more middle ground before it can capture a country winning vote.
And somehow move from a message of envy (make the rich pay / make Amazon/tech firms pay) that most people know or sense will mean the companies simply pass the cost to who? Yes, their customers.
And I suspect, many people vote 'not' rather than 'for' - eg in 2017 May (and her last minute care proposal) lost it rather than Corbyn 'did well', similarly this time labour/momentum were more unpalatable than the alternative.
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Dec 2019
9:41am, 13 Dec 2019
76 posts
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Daft Vader
And Sushi - that's your opinion. I disagree with some elements of it, but you expressed those opinions in a sensible fashion so I won't rag on you for holding them. We just disagree.
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Dec 2019
9:41am, 13 Dec 2019
15,594 posts
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Chrisull
I don't people up north are going "I don't like that momemtum", if you had a poll on who momentum were , I;d suggest less than 50% of people would know. I think they looked at the shadow cabinet and didn't like who they saw. So Richard Burgon. Barry Gardiner. Jon Ashworth. Jon Trickett. And to be honest I wasn't very fond of most of them either!
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Dec 2019
9:42am, 13 Dec 2019
2,381 posts
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B Rubble
Interestingly Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and Jeremy Corbyn became MPs in 1983. So if history is to be repeated and we are looking to see a more centre-left social democratic Labour party, which would be popular/electable (as TMW elucidated very well earlier) we may have to wait 10 years.
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Dec 2019
9:46am, 13 Dec 2019
3,947 posts
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Raemond
I can't speak for everyone here, obviously, but for myself I can say that I choose to think those who vote Tory have been mislead and believed demonstrable lies because the alternative is to believe that they've clearly and rationally surveyed the devastation, the massive rise in rough sleepers (and in rough sleepers dying), the mismanagement and underfunding of the NHS, the totally flawed and inhumane role out of universal credit and attitude towards those requiring any kind of state support that has lead to thousands upon thousands of preventable deaths, the Windrush scandal and hostile environment for immigrants refugees and asylum seekers, the rich getting richer by exploiting the machinery of the state that is supposed to serve everyone (I could go on ad nauseam) and thought YES PLEASE! MORE OF THAT!
I don't want to believe that a significant proportion of the British people are really that misanthropic, it's much more comforting to think they're just 'stupid' because at least then there's hope they might learn.
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Dec 2019
9:49am, 13 Dec 2019
43,393 posts
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Diogenes
I can see why people don't like/trust/connect with Corbyn.
I can't see why anyone would do so with an utter fuckwit like Johnson?
If I owned a business I would not employ a candidate like him. I doubt if he'd last any longer than the minimum that is polite. He would not get through The Apprentice process, although he would make a perfect candidate because of the car-crash TV he'd offer.
So, we have a car-crash reality TV personality as our PM. Is this because people's main experience of voting is via reality TV. Vote for the clown who trips over his own feet and eats goat anuses?
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Dec 2019
9:55am, 13 Dec 2019
22,920 posts
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Sushi.
Dio I was just thinking aboutreqluty TV in a similar way.
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Dec 2019
9:59am, 13 Dec 2019
15,595 posts
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Chrisull
brubble - we may well have to wait 10 years - BUT the election result this one resembles most closely I'd say is not 1983, (where Labour had 148), but 1987. (ok 203 -> 229 is not directly comparable, but the SNP are the main difference.) And the majority is smaller than that of 1987 (102 then, 76 now?), and of course 1987 led to 1992, which was a close to hung Parliament and Kinnock was never a particularly well liked leader.
dio - it isn't a case of people voting for Johnson, as much as voting against Corbyn. I don't agree with the decisions, but I can understand why people might come to that. It's what gives me hope. A choice between Johnson and someone like Starmer in 5 years time may well give a lot more people pause for thought.
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
