May 2020
5:18pm, 14 May 2020
3,923 posts
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Kieren
To follow up on my last update, my 6 day week is (very) roughly (forgetting I go slightly off-plan on Sunday LSR):
45 mins at threshold 6 mins of strides (I don't think they count) 190 mins easy ------------------- 241 minutes (4 hours)
That is about 19% effort, 79% easy with the strides (if they count as hard) being a couple of percent.
Without reviewing that, I had thought the week was a lot more heavily weighted towards hard efforts - unless I am counting incorrectly? (warm-ups & cool-downs on hard days, go in the "easy" training pot?)
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May 2020
10:21pm, 15 May 2020
2,299 posts
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Canute
Dillthedog, I do not think there is any absolute rule about the number of training days per week. It depends on how well your body recovers. I usually prefer to train every day of the week, though at least one of those days is very easy. I would have a complete rest day if I felt increasing fatigue, or if life’s other pressures demand a day off.
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May 2020
4:36pm, 18 May 2020
3,744 posts
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Dillthedog
Thanks Canute and Kieren. I think I’m constantly chasing the right mix of training that causes steady improvement without completely knackering me. Mid 50s seems to make recovery more important than ever, especially with 2 hard days.
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Aug 2020
2:12pm, 2 Aug 2020
3,977 posts
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Kieren
How do people do their long runs?
When I was on better shape, I used to run between marathon and easy pace. This year, I have been pacing more towards easy pace to build up my injury resilience.
Some runners like to 'work' on their long runs, so will be closer to threshold. (That's how I remember treating mine, although my logs say I was a bit slower than threshold pace 10+ years ago)
The latest book I am reading(1) seems to suggest (only skim read) that runners at my pace might benefit from alternating between easy pace and 10K pace on the long run rather sit on a pace that is too easy to stimulate adaption or too hard for current condition. It's made me think. The book talks of 5 minute rotations, I know some runners would combine a Saturday long run with parkrun or strides. Would a varying pace run class as a polarized / interval run?
Ref: 1) Improve your marathon & 1/2 marathon - David Chalfen
NB - I'm not 100% sure on the book stance - I was skim reading
Jack Daniels seems to recommend treating long runs as easy pace runs - at least in the general guidance. That might get mixed up in different plans.
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Aug 2020
2:29pm, 2 Aug 2020
47,817 posts
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Velociraptor
I'd recommend optimising everything else, particularly total running mileage and targeted speedwork, before thinking about doing any fancy business with your long runs.
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Aug 2020
2:53pm, 2 Aug 2020
4,435 posts
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FenlandRunner
Absolutely and totally agree with V'Rap.
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Aug 2020
3:03pm, 2 Aug 2020
3,978 posts
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Kieren
Vrap - you are right & thanks Fenlandrunner also.
I will just stick to what Jack Daniels says as it seems to kept me running and improving for the last 14 weeks - I suppose I'm just curious and impatient.
Going back to David's book, I was mistaken. I should perhaps read during the day, rather than when I am falling asleep.
The example was not a long run, breaking down an elite level half-marathon interval run for non-elite runners. He talks about many factors / differences but the 10K pace was to do with the elite half-marathon(HM) pace will be a lot more intense for them than HM pace for a more recreational runner that might be better with shorter intervals between 10K and 10M pace. I can only see *steady* listed for long runs in David's book - I'll probably know what that is when I finish the book and my current plan.
I think I'll stick with Jack for another 12 weeks and for winter try a half marathon plan from David's book.
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Aug 2020
3:11pm, 2 Aug 2020
1,146 posts
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puzzler
For Jack Daniels it depends on whether you are doing long runs for base training or as part of a program. The marathon schedules have some long runs as just easy but others have quite a lot of marathon or tempo pace miles.
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Aug 2020
2:36pm, 3 Aug 2020
35,014 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
Kieran I think certainly in the early stages keep easy, until closer to the marathon 6 weeks before maybe. What I used to do was MP for last 6-10 miles. I started training with a new ‘coach’ who started giving me long runs at Tempo pace and MP on the longer. I questioned it and he defended it (not very well). So back to my 80/20 training 😂
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Aug 2020
2:14pm, 4 Aug 2020
3,980 posts
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Kieren
Yeah - I have realised I am just in an impatient stage. I'm just going to keep chipping away on the last 2 weeks of this red (beginner) plan and try to be more consistent with resistance training. A focus on long runs and 1/2 marathon will take a back seat for now.
I think I am perhaps a little envious of running friends. I am organising a weely 5K virtual handicap with friends - I've been consistently training 4 - 6 days a week for the last 6 months to get to low 22 min for 5K another guy runs twice a week (about 14KM total) and knocks out 21:30. Another guy does zero running (but has a manual job) and runs 22:00 on his 2nd run.
^ Clearly I need to get over myself - I know better than to judge your own success by other peoples
I'll have short deload between plans - the next JD plan; Blue, swaps out threshold intervals for shorter vo2max repetition work, so that might see a jump in improvement for me or at least a different training stimulus.
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