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Polarized training

91 watchers
May 2020
5:18pm, 14 May 2020
3,923 posts
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Kieren
To follow up on my last update, my 6 day week is (very) roughly (forgetting I go slightly off-plan on Sunday LSR):

45 mins at threshold
6 mins of strides (I don't think they count)
190 mins easy
-------------------
241 minutes (4 hours)

That is about 19% effort, 79% easy with the strides (if they count as hard) being a couple of percent.

Without reviewing that, I had thought the week was a lot more heavily weighted towards hard efforts - unless I am counting incorrectly? (warm-ups & cool-downs on hard days, go in the "easy" training pot?)
May 2020
10:21pm, 15 May 2020
2,299 posts
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Canute
Dillthedog, I do not think there is any absolute rule about the number of training days per week. It depends on how well your body recovers. I usually prefer to train every day of the week, though at least one of those days is very easy. I would have a complete rest day if I felt increasing fatigue, or if life’s other pressures demand a day off.
May 2020
4:36pm, 18 May 2020
3,744 posts
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Dillthedog
Thanks Canute and Kieren. I think I’m constantly chasing the right mix of training that causes steady improvement without completely knackering me. Mid 50s seems to make recovery more important than ever, especially with 2 hard days.
Aug 2020
2:12pm, 2 Aug 2020
3,977 posts
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Kieren
How do people do their long runs?

When I was on better shape, I used to run between marathon and easy pace. This year, I have been pacing more towards easy pace to build up my injury resilience.

Some runners like to 'work' on their long runs, so will be closer to threshold. (That's how I remember treating mine, although my logs say I was a bit slower than threshold pace 10+ years ago)

The latest book I am reading(1) seems to suggest (only skim read) that runners at my pace might benefit from alternating between easy pace and 10K pace on the long run rather sit on a pace that is too easy to stimulate adaption or too hard for current condition. It's made me think. The book talks of 5 minute rotations, I know some runners would combine a Saturday long run with parkrun or strides. Would a varying pace run class as a polarized / interval run?

Ref:
1) Improve your marathon & 1/2 marathon - David Chalfen

NB - I'm not 100% sure on the book stance - I was skim reading

Jack Daniels seems to recommend treating long runs as easy pace runs - at least in the general guidance. That might get mixed up in different plans.
Aug 2020
2:29pm, 2 Aug 2020
47,817 posts
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Velociraptor
I'd recommend optimising everything else, particularly total running mileage and targeted speedwork, before thinking about doing any fancy business with your long runs.
Aug 2020
2:53pm, 2 Aug 2020
4,435 posts
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FenlandRunner
Absolutely and totally agree with V'Rap.
Aug 2020
3:03pm, 2 Aug 2020
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Kieren
Vrap - you are right & thanks Fenlandrunner also.

I will just stick to what Jack Daniels says as it seems to kept me running and improving for the last 14 weeks - I suppose I'm just curious and impatient.

Going back to David's book, I was mistaken. I should perhaps read during the day, rather than when I am falling asleep.

The example was not a long run, breaking down an elite level half-marathon interval run for non-elite runners. He talks about many factors / differences but the 10K pace was to do with the elite half-marathon(HM) pace will be a lot more intense for them than HM pace for a more recreational runner that might be better with shorter intervals between 10K and 10M pace. I can only see *steady* listed for long runs in David's book - I'll probably know what that is when I finish the book and my current plan.

I think I'll stick with Jack for another 12 weeks and for winter try a half marathon plan from David's book.
Aug 2020
3:11pm, 2 Aug 2020
1,146 posts
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puzzler
For Jack Daniels it depends on whether you are doing long runs for base training or as part of a program. The marathon schedules have some long runs as just easy but others have quite a lot of marathon or tempo pace miles.
Aug 2020
2:36pm, 3 Aug 2020
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Hills of Death (HOD)
Kieran I think certainly in the early stages keep easy, until closer to the marathon 6 weeks before maybe. What I used to do was MP for last 6-10 miles. I started training with a new ‘coach’ who started giving me long runs at Tempo pace and MP on the longer. I questioned it and he defended it (not very well). So back to my 80/20 training 😂
Aug 2020
2:14pm, 4 Aug 2020
3,980 posts
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Kieren
Yeah - I have realised I am just in an impatient stage. I'm just going to keep chipping away on the last 2 weeks of this red (beginner) plan and try to be more consistent with resistance training. A focus on long runs and 1/2 marathon will take a back seat for now.

I think I am perhaps a little envious of running friends. I am organising a weely 5K virtual handicap with friends - I've been consistently training 4 - 6 days a week for the last 6 months to get to low 22 min for 5K another guy runs twice a week (about 14KM total) and knocks out 21:30. Another guy does zero running (but has a manual job) and runs 22:00 on his 2nd run.

^ Clearly I need to get over myself - I know better than to judge your own success by other peoples :)

I'll have short deload between plans - the next JD plan; Blue, swaps out threshold intervals for shorter vo2max repetition work, so that might see a jump in improvement for me or at least a different training stimulus.

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com
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