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Polarized training

91 watchers
Aug 2020
2:25pm, 4 Aug 2020
47,842 posts
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Velociraptor
I remember being impressed by your maturity on a previous occasion, Kieren, when you considered throwing caution to the wind in pursuit of a fast time at the Berlin Marathon in 2007 (!) but opted to aim for the time your training predicted and succeeded. You're 13 years older now and well capable of sticking with a programme with a good evidence base rather than going off on tangents. At least you KNOW that with your friends it's just about raw talent rather than some secret magical training plan.
J2R
Aug 2020
2:46pm, 4 Aug 2020
2,874 posts
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J2R
Kieren, one of the things which distinguishes polarized training from other approaches is that you actually do very little of your training at race pace - normally just as part of a few sessions late on in the programme. You trust the combination of a lot of easy stuff and a small amount of really hard stuff to build the systems which will allow you to hit your targets. Race pace training is useful to help give you a feel for the pace you require, and as a psychological boost, to show yourself that you can handle the pace. But a little of it goes a long way.
Aug 2020
7:23pm, 4 Aug 2020
35,021 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
Yes my thoughts entirely J2R.

I was being trained by someone who ‘suggested’ 30-40 mpw was fine for marathon training. The longest runs were done initially at Tempo and as soon as the were longer than 75 mins Race pace never easy.
J2R
Aug 2020
8:06pm, 4 Aug 2020
2,875 posts
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J2R
Curious training regime, HoD. Mind you, back in 2007 I ran my then fastest marathon, 3:11, on an average of 21mpw, and when I ran sub-3 I was on a lot less than 40mpw, so I'm not sure 30-40mpw is so wrong (although I suspect I'm physiologically a bit weird). If I were in serious marathon training now, I'd probably run 45-50mpw. (At 60 I think much more would probably be too much for my body to cope with, week after week).
Aug 2020
8:29pm, 4 Aug 2020
35,022 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
Yes mate my best results have been on 45-50 mpw with the vast majority easier miles. I think with one tempo run a week (I normally save this for the Parkrun); I interval the rest easy. But I’d develop the long run to 6 weeks before doing 50% easy 50% MP.

As I’m not a natural gifted runner I needed all the help I could get 😜
SPR
Aug 2020
8:35pm, 4 Aug 2020
30,713 posts
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SPR
As I said elsewhere HOD, I'm amazed you got with a coach without knowing their philosophy. What's the point of a coach if you have no idea what to expect?

J2R - All about what your potential is/ was at the time. You can obvious be fit on 40 miles or even less but marathon fit and convert well, probably not.

Kieran - What's your training background, on paper it looks like you're running more than ever but it looks like you've had a few years off running? I guess it will take time to get back to where you want to be. There are no magic bullets.
Aug 2020
10:20pm, 4 Aug 2020
3,981 posts
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Kieren
Thanks Vrap. Berlin was such a good experience - it ticked all the boxes.

SPR - you got it summed up pretty much. In a nutshell - pretty much no routine running between 2008 - 2020

------

I started running in 2004/5 with no clue what to do. I used to enter the odd half-marathon. I loved the process of trial and error and trying to figure things out and did not want structure or schedules. Looking at my logs (which differ from my memory) they tell me I was mostly in zone 3 for all runs and only running once or twice a week. My my legs were sore all the time (I thought it was normal) but that managed to get me to 18:33 on 5K and 1:31 on half marathon in 2006

At the end of 2006 I was beta testing a new heart rate monitor from polar, for which they gave me an ECG. Abnormal results indicated a serious hear problem which killed off my running for a bit till all the testing was done which took months - result is false alarm.

2008 wrecked my ankle in cross country and every time I tried to come back, it went again. Saw physios, started lifting weights on advice to protect the ankle but that aside from the odd jog or parkrun that was end of routine until 2020.

Between 2017 - 2020 i was cycling to work at 2 hours a day, so couldn't really fit running in. Lock down has changed that I re-discovered the joy of running.

Jan 1st 2020 - I was in Bali & went for 12k run & stacked it. Smashed my phone to bits, got an infection in the cut and 2 days later my garmin was stolen. Not a great start! Treated myself to a new garmin 245 and decided to follow a beginner plan to stop me doing too much too soon.

Greg Mcmillan 5K plan first and now a beginner plan from Jack Daniels which I prefer. Right now I am more consistent than ever which I love and do about 4-5 hours a week at around 45km. I do get frustrated a little that decent times came quite easy to me with little structure/work back in 2006 but then I guess that is youth and springy tendons :)
Aug 2020
5:06pm, 5 Aug 2020
35,023 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
SPR I got drawn in by fancy marketing once bitten twice shy this was tried by Lindsay Parry on an one hour sales pi ...I mean presentation.

I was waiting for the it’s normally $999 but as you answered this video presentation it’s only $299 for the year with some sort of 30 day money back guarantee. I just thought it was just like the shopping channel.

The thing that made me very wary loads of people were asking questions. I asked how is this different from 80/20 training/polarised with some Jeffing thrown in. Got no answer that’s because it was exactly the same. They spoke about cross training a lot without saying exactly WHAT.
Aug 2020
5:09pm, 5 Aug 2020
71,007 posts
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Gobi
Oh dear
Aug 2020
5:12pm, 5 Aug 2020
35,025 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
Gobi I sent you his plan what’s your opinion 😂

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com

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