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Apr 2020
5:57pm, 27 Apr 2020
2,733 posts
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J2R
Gobi, I think if you can cope with that sort of volume of training, the running volume by itself is inevitably going to make a big difference. Most runners I know attempting that kind of mileage end up breaking after a while. I would be very cautious about trying to push much beyond 50 mpw on a regular basis, however easily I ran those miles. But then again, I am a couple of months away from turning 60 and my body is sadly not as resilient as it would have been when younger.
One thing I keep coming back to with polarized training - and it still applies if you stop at stage 1 of the hierarchy Canute mentioned - is that doing lots of easy miles does not of itself make you a fast runner (unless you're doing the kind of mileage Gobi talks about, perhaps). If that were the case, so many club runners would be a lot faster than they are. In my club, there are lots of runners who run a higher weekly mileage than me whom I will beat in races. And they're running at a pace they find easy, even if it is probably a little faster than ideal. I think the key must be the effectiveness of the speedwork 'spice' which you add to the mix.
Interestingly, with lockdown my training has somewhat changed. I'm still doing as many miles as I can per week easy, although that has reduced somewhat as I've been trying to get out on my bike a couple of times per week and enjoy the empty roads, and I have to choose a bike ride or a run, I can't do both. But with no races coming up for the foreseeable future, I've kind of lost the motivation to put myself through the mill with the hard training sessions I usually do once a week, either 4 x 8 mins at 10K pace or 8-10 reps of 1K at 10K pace. Instead my speedwork is coming in the form of normally pretty short strava challenges. So, most of my weekly mileage done at 7:45-8:30 mins/mile, and then once or twice a very short really fast blast, like 600 metres at 4:40 mins/mile, or a 3K as fast I can. It'll be interesting to see how this extremely polarized training works out.
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Apr 2020
6:17pm, 27 Apr 2020
69,296 posts
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Gobi
I'm 50 now and have been retired from distance running for 8 years. Mileage now is around 1500 a year and I still like to run between 8 and 9 min mile (5 - 5.41 perkm) during lock down this is all I do as I have no run goals . Ran a 17.45 5km a few weeks back off it.
Last year i ran a 2.22 800 off almost no running speedwork .
I firmly believe that Years of running allow me to have a reasonable turn of speed with very little need for speedwork or volume
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Apr 2020
9:04pm, 27 Apr 2020
2,220 posts
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Canute
J2R
It is interesting to know what is required to generate the resilience necessary for running more than 100mpw without injury. I expect it is a combination of natural resilience and the gradual development of an adequate foundation over a period of years.
Both Ed Whitlock and Gene Dykes (the only two people to run sub 3 hr marathons in their seventies) ran prodigious volumes despite their age. Whitlock used to run 3 hours (or more) per day, at a very slow pace, most days of the week, and augmented this with 30- 40 fast races (5K or 10K) per year, in his early 70’s. Dykes does very long ultras (eg 200 miles) as well as some speed work. Both had been athletes in their school days, and despite some fallow years, did a lot of running in the mid-adult years.
In my own case, I ran to and from school from age 5, but included a modest amount of fairly intense training in my teens and early 20’s. In my early 20’s I ran 100 mpw regularly without injury, but by that stage I had 15 years of (mainly recreational) running behind me.
J2R you clearly thrive on 50 mpw + some fairly intense intervals. I suspect you are using available training time with near optimum efficiency.
If you had much more time to devote to training and wished to improve further, I think it might be worthwhile building your resilience by increased amounts of low intensity training – probably much lower intensity that most of your current running.
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Apr 2020
2:18pm, 28 Apr 2020
34,878 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
That’s answered my other question Gobi lol. Yes the easy paced runs should fill the volume and I agree with you the odd parkrun/ 10k to do a tempo run certainly doesn’t hurt. I see many of my club mates go out and run quicker than 10k In ‘training’ . On closer inspection when you look at their strava their 7 min miles pace is nearer 9-9.30 on time elapsed !!!!
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Apr 2020
3:37pm, 28 Apr 2020
69,305 posts
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Gobi
Canute - point to note if I have a running race coming up all I do is raise my mileage for a couple of months from say 30 to 40 miles a week and do a few more hard 5kms as efforts
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Apr 2020
3:37pm, 28 Apr 2020
69,306 posts
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Gobi
Ie volume is still my first port of call
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Apr 2020
4:04pm, 28 Apr 2020
2,229 posts
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Canute
Gobi That sounds sensible.
If I decide to race again I will do something similar. If I decide to run another marathon to celebrate my 80th birthday, I will probably only aim for around 40-50 mpw. I would anticipate that will be enough to allow me achieve my goal reasonably comfortably. But at this stage there is no way of knowing what might seem comfortable at age 80. By that age Ed Whitlock had extended his sessions to 4 hours daily, but he did not really enjoy it. It would be premature to be drawing up a training plan for something that far in the future.
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Apr 2020
5:20pm, 28 Apr 2020
16,047 posts
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Chrisull
So here's a question, which is kind of a rephrasing of some past questions I've asked.
In response to Canute's comment:
"It is interesting to know what is required to generate the resilience necessary for running more than 100mpw without injury. I expect it is a combination of natural resilience and the gradual development of an adequate foundation over a period of years. "
My mileage hasn't decreased much during lockdown say 40pw to 30-35pw, but my average run length has -> so all runs are maximum 5 miles, whereas I used to have one 8 miles and one long run. Also my dog walking is now my dog run, so I'm missing 1 walk a day on top of that
I have recently reintroduced the long run once a week, starting at 11 miles and last week moving up to 13 miles, and while I find heart/lungs are generally not far off where they were, my legs ache at 9 or 10 miles, in a way they more normally did after 16-18. Now given I was running 20 mile runs, just a couple of months back, what in endurance training have I lost from my foundation/or resilience that should make it hard/harder in such a relatively short space of time?
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Apr 2020
5:22pm, 28 Apr 2020
16,048 posts
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Chrisull
So it's a case what adaptations specifically do I gain from adding volume, than are non-cardiac related and that might decrease relatively quickly?
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Apr 2020
5:28pm, 28 Apr 2020
1,673 posts
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Brunski
Canute - Do you think polarised training only works for people who are able to dedicate a lot of time to training?
Say you can dedicate 6 hours a week to training you’d not advise 5 hours at really low effort pace and an hour of hard running would you? I can see how it’d work if you can double that to 12 hours a week.
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80/20
Jun 2019