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Oct 2020
8:46am, 1 Oct 2020
37,226 posts
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Nellers
Reading that back now I've had a bit of recovery time that sounds really wimpy doesn't it? Calf Cramp?
Well the point was that getting into a catch position was very uncomfortable and I couldn't keep my right heel down initially, but once I'd warmed up things were a lot easier.
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Oct 2020
10:59am, 1 Oct 2020
863 posts
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Muttley
Morning all.
Some nice work there Nellers. Beats me how you can do this so early in the morning. I'm fit for nothing until I've had at least three cups of tea and got something in my stomach (and handled the "morning constitutional" if you'll forgive the oversharing!)
Re calfs and keeping heels down, my heels are always slightly raised when I start the drive. I wonder if I'm overreaching on the catch.
Anyhoo, just a few metres this morning, ticking over.
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Oct 2020
11:30am, 1 Oct 2020
677 posts
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Cats Whiskers
Cramp is evil! There's nothing wimpy about being cautious after a bout in the night, Nellers, especially when you can still feel it the next morning. Anyway, glad it's eased off a bit now.
Muttley – I spent time over the summer trying to reduce heel lift. It helped with driving more efficiently but also reduced my stroke length quite a bit and I felt like I wasn't getting the torso past vertical at the catch. I've accepted some heel lift now as a compromise, but that's partly because I know my calves and Achilles tendons aren't very flexible.
It's so hard to self-diagnose problems with technique when you can't see what you're doing! My latest thing is whether I'm keeping the handle too low at the end of the drive phase (it usually ends up just above my navel), as I've seen photos of burly men with the handle coming just below the armpits. I can see that might give a fraction extra on drive length but it seems like 'bad length' to me as it looks like their wrists are bending. Anyone got any thoughts on that?
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Oct 2020
12:04pm, 1 Oct 2020
6,985 posts
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sallykate
I tend to finish as high as is comfortable - it's been decades since I rowed on water but I still think of the stroke as a sort of tear drop shape, pushing down at the end to lift the blade. Finishing low just feels wrong, but equally finishing at your armpits would be odd. I always keep my wrists straight.
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Oct 2020
12:39pm, 1 Oct 2020
864 posts
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Muttley
CW, I've come to the same conclusion as you, possibly for the same reason -- lack of flexibility. Possibly by coincidence I'm currently fighting a case of Haglund's Deformity (aka bone spurs or "pump bump"), the treatment for which is .... to work on the hammies.
Apropos hand position at the end of the drive, I thought the idea was to keep the wrists flat. If I correctly understand that term, it means my handle ends up just below the (man) boobs.
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Oct 2020
12:46pm, 1 Oct 2020
37,227 posts
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Nellers
Muttley: I get up, get a coffee, "increase my power to weight ratio" (which is similar, I think, to your morning constitutional) then try to get on with it. I've been doing morning runs and morning bike rides for ages so when I got the rower I started doing morning rows too. Until recently it's always just been level 4/ UT2 low intensity steady state stuff though.
The new plan means fitting in more UT1 and AT stuff than I can manage just using evenings and weekends (at least it does if I ever want to pick weights up which I really can't face in the morning and takes too long anyway!) so I'm putting the lowest intensity stuff I need to fit in as morning sessions.
It seems to be working out OK so far.
From some of the stuff I've seen and read excessive heal lift is avoided because it allows the shin past vertical at the catch. Doing that tends to tilt the hips back and limits how much you can get a forward angle with the upper body. Keeping your heels down, or at least closer to the stretcher, stops your shins going too far and keeps your bum sticking out a bit more so you can get that lean.
It's so difficult trying to do what you know you should when you can't actually see what you're doing! I occasionally get one of the kids to do a quick video of me rowing so I can watch it back. Haven't done it for a while. Might try to do that at the weekend.
And pulling to your armpits on the Erg is something I've seen video of some of the top boys doing, but I've only seen them doing it when they're doing rate capped tests like the 30r20 to get that extra length. I've also seen some of them get a bollocking from their coach for doing it, so I don't think it's a good plan!
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Oct 2020
2:39pm, 2 Oct 2020
681 posts
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Cats Whiskers
Muttley, that sounds painful. Does it affect running?
Thanks for the advice on handle position at the end of the drive. Glad to know my initial reaction to seeing the handle up by the armpits wasn't wrong! Had a good session yesterday concentrating on forward lean (much improved when I shifted starting position on the seat) and handle position, which seemed to come naturally to the bottom of the ribs when wrists were straight, so I'll live with that for a while.
Nellers, I don't know how you manage to fit in all that training! I struggle to do a yoga session and a run/row five days a week.
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Oct 2020
3:06pm, 2 Oct 2020
37,235 posts
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Nellers
It's amazing what you can get used to CW. Most of my training until recently (whether running, cycling, rowing or swimming) was low intensity stuff so fatigue wasn't usually that much of a problem. Having to be a bit more careful and measured with this newer plan though.
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Oct 2020
7:44pm, 2 Oct 2020
866 posts
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Muttley
CW -- yes, it is painful! It's odd in that it stings at the start of a run and then settles down. But the next day it hurts like blazes and I'm hobbling round the house. Oddly though this morning's fairly energetic sesh on the rower has banished it for today ... yet more proof of the C2's magical leg loosening properties. With Storm Alex upon us I'll not be out running for a day of two, methinks. More time to hammer the rower 
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Oct 2020
8:39pm, 2 Oct 2020
37,237 posts
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Nellers
Rowing is the best eh Muttley?
HRV app this morning told me I needed to limit intensity as I'm not fully recovered so I postponed the Anaerobic Threshold session I'd planned and just did a 60 minute steady state. Really please with the way it went. A few weeks working at higher intensities has made a real difference to the pace I could hold at this rate and with the HR as low as it stayed.
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