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Zwifters

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MudMeanderer Mar 2021 12:37pm, 10 Mar 2021 2,066 posts	Quote Pin MudMeanderer I regularly finish about 0.5w/kg higher than those around me in races on ZP. However I also almost always finish with a much lower average power. That's what comes of being about bottom 5% on male height (165cm) and slight with it, so probably bottom 2% on male weight for the UK (54kg).
larkim Mar 2021 12:45pm, 10 Mar 2021 13,705 posts	Quote Pin larkim Part of me definitely finds it odd that Zwift allows the mass of a rider to influence how they perform in the game. Surely once you've established the w/kg then someone riding at 3.5w/kg weighing 75kg should finish level with someone weighing 100kg but riding at 3.5w/kg. I know that's not real world, but then neither is the cost of the bike I'm "virtually" on, nor do I get "boost" buttons. I think someone posted a few weeks back about the w/kg to get up the Alpe in under an hour and that it was approx 3.2w/kg. But if you weigh 40kg, would you get up slower or faster than someone weighing 120kg if both were putting out the same w/kg? Is it better in the virtual world to be heavier or lighter in the real world?
MudMeanderer Mar 2021 1:15pm, 10 Mar 2021 2,068 posts	Quote Pin MudMeanderer Larkim: I expect the answer to that is whoever created the game's physics engine didn't want to have to also rewrite Newton's Law's, and check that nothing weird happens with those new laws (that's how we ended up with quantum mechanics!). Given the vast array of available knowledge on implementing efficient numerical methods for real physics problems, it would seem strange to decide to want to ignore all that and create some new physics - interesting intellectual exercise maybe, but possibly not of much practical value. Adding a power boost or weight drop involves temporarily changing one input parameter, but doesn't require the complete re-engineering of the underlying model.
Gobi Mar 2021 1:41pm, 10 Mar 2021 73,537 posts	Quote Pin Gobi it does in real life as well larks
jda Mar 2021 2:22pm, 10 Mar 2021 9,622 posts	Quote Pin jda Gobi, I'm currently 81 kg, Tom (the strong B) is about 85 I think. He has been A in the past and for sure could be again but if you don't specifically set out to do a full-on 20 mins it just doesn't happen for people our size in most races. Larkim, the point is that zwift is simulating real physics. A good big one beats a good little one, basically. Even going up the Alpe where most of the work is against gravity there are still some effects of aero resistance and bike weight that gives a small advantage to heavier riders.
Gobi Mar 2021 3:40pm, 10 Mar 2021 73,541 posts	Quote Pin Gobi JDA - was going to agree with you on pure power the heavier guy can win on the flat but the real twigs come to the fore going up hill The interesting one is height doping ...... small and heavy is faster than big and heavy
Big_G Mar 2021 3:58pm, 10 Mar 2021 768 posts	Quote Pin Big_G Yes, I'm plainly no expert, but surely lighter riders have an advantage on the uphills? Otherwise what is the point of the "weight-weenies" shaving grams off their bikes? Gobi, is that an air resistance thing regarding taller riders being slower? Or is it something else?
jda Mar 2021 4:12pm, 10 Mar 2021 9,624 posts	Quote Pin jda In reality light riders are not limited as to w/kg, and it's easier to shave grammes off your bike than gain watts on your power (well, you can do both). In zwift, lightweights are capped at the same w/kg level as the fatties if they want to ride in B or lower (even in A events that exclude A+). Unless the sub-250W exemption comes into play and then yes they do leave the larger riders behind on big climbs, but only because they are riding at 4.5 (say) in B versus heavier riders who are capped at 4.0. Many of the winners of the Innsbruck ZRL races fell under the absolute watts exemption and there was simply no legitimate way for heavy riders to keep up with them.
Gobi Mar 2021 4:20pm, 10 Mar 2021 73,542 posts	Quote Pin Gobi Big_G - they tested the ZWIFT CDA JDA pretty brutal when you meet a sub 50kg B cat with 4.5Wkg :¬)
larkim Mar 2021 4:33pm, 10 Mar 2021 13,713 posts	Quote Pin larkim I suppose my logic was that if the game "knows" your real world output and "knows" your w/kg then it could have presented an idealised human in the game for whom x.x w/kg means a certain speed. e.g. if on the flat, 3.5w/kg for an average real world person means 23mph without drafting and 27mph with drafting, wouldn't it have been easier to allow people to drop their real world weight as a factor in the game and just allow them to bring in that power to weight ratio. It just feels unfair in the context of a game that I can ride side by side with someone else putting out the same w/kg on a climb, but then on the descent if neither of us pedal the heavier rider will get to the bottom first. Perhaps there's more to it that I'm not getting my head around!