Transgender Athletes

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DocM Feb 2023 8:13am, 4 Feb 2023 47,158 posts	0 DocM Thank you I'll go to the other thread fetcheveryone.com/forum/transgender-exercise---lets-fetch-everyone-61358/ For those who also would rather be there
MsG Feb 2023 11:53am, 4 Feb 2023 2,344 posts	0 MsG I agree with Vrap and RooA that we need to be able to use clear language to discuss this. I recognise that the people posting on here don't agree with various definitions and not sure how we can resolve that. I'm aware there are trans and non binary Fetchies, and I'm trying to write sensitively, however these issues (as V and R said) affect women too. There are women on fetch who have direct experience of male violence so discussions about accepting males into female only spaces is read by them too.
Pinks Feb 2023 2:32pm, 4 Feb 2023 40,143 posts	0 Pinks It's a shame your feelings have changed so dramatically v'rap, along with other things you previously wrote in the thread. "Cisgender" has only entered general usage recently and it would be naïve to expect everyone just to smile sweetly and accept it. I'm totally comfortable with its use in legal, medical, and technical contexts, but in everyday life instinct is, "Don't go sticking a new label on me now." And "cis" is calculated offensiveness. Women are not a subset of our own sex. And I never said "men", I said "male". RooA: You have previously used male and men interchangeably, which is what I did. A transwoman doesn't feel like a male, they are assigned that at birth. You yourself wrote a blog where you used male in one sentence, then man in a further sentence. In answer to your question, they were assigned male when they were born, that doesn't mean that is who they are. From your own blog: What happens when all the Catagory A male prisoners in Scotland discover their inner woman identity? ............ got us to the point where a man ............ Even if we decide that the safety, privacy and dignity and overall freedom from fear of the female prisoners is more important than the sad feels of violent men ............ I say he's a man. I'm not after arguing over the semantics of whether what I wrote is correct. I wrote a comment because a lot of what I had seen was hatred and unkind. My child once said they wanted to be a 'kind, human person' when they grow up. Can we just take that and work from there?
Raemond Feb 2023 2:47pm, 4 Feb 2023 10,074 posts	0 Raemond About one in four of cis women have, iirc, and an even more depressingly high number of trans women have. Yet, according to the research referenced earlier, the majority of cis women welcome our trans sisters into 'our' spaces. Perhaps, like me, they feel much safer in the company of trans women than at the mercy of cis women with a prurient interest in the contents of other people's underwear.
RooA Feb 2023 3:38pm, 4 Feb 2023 2,110 posts	0 RooA Thanks for quoting my blog, which is Fetchies only, onto a public thread, which anyone can read, Pinks. Appreciate that. I'm hardly matters but it is not good practice. I consider my use of male and man carefully. And yes, I will call a violent male rapist a man. If you consider that this is me using male and man "interchangeably" then you have taken a mis-reading. It's not semantics. If transwomen are not male then we have a different discussion with regards to sports. I have not called transwomen in general "men". Just specific ones that have raped women. If someone is observed to be male at birth then that is their sex for life. Human beings cannot change sex. Sex is not gender. Sports are played with sexed bodies. It is sex that matters in sports. Your sex is not "who you are", you can be whatever you are regardless of it, it's just a physical reality. It's not something you feel. You may feel an incongruance with it, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that in order to be trans you have to be the opposite sex to what you feel yourself to be. So transwomen are by definition male. Is anyone going to be kind to women at any point, I wonder? It's not kind to force female athletes to compete against males. Its not kind to allow male athletes to break female records or take female college scholarships in America or female accolades. It is not kind to force female prisoners to share space with violent male rapists either. While we're on about kindness.
RooA Feb 2023 3:39pm, 4 Feb 2023 2,111 posts	0 RooA It* hardly matters. Not I'm.
1step2far Feb 2023 4:46pm, 4 Feb 2023 7,303 posts	0 1step2far Roo your blog is public though? I've been reading it as I like to see other perspectives from my own. It's no more private than the forums? Unless you make it buddies only?
fetcheveryone Feb 2023 5:00pm, 4 Feb 2023 28,706 posts	0 fetcheveryone Hi everyone, I've had multiple complaints about the recent activity on both the trans threads. I will post the same message on both. It seems that we've reached a point where the ability to discuss these issues has broken down. I have always fought hard for free speech on Fetcheveryone; but always on the understanding that this freedom comes with a responsibility to consider the things that you say, and their impact on others. You all have the right to your opinions, but I ask you to think about your goals. I figure that any debate should exist to gain a greater understanding of the issue at hand; and to see if differing views can be at least partially reconciled, in order for our world to progress. I don't believe that this is possible without collaboration and respect, and it concerns me that there's not a lot of evidence of either just now. If we are ever to find a way forward in a very difficult situation, it has to be with everyone taking a seat at the table. As someone who is neither trans nor female, I would not assume I have the right to speak for you nor to understand your issues as fully as you do. But I imagine that any reasonable viewer of this thread, myself included, has a huge amount of sympathy for all the individuals the issue affects. I don't have a solution that looks after everyone. But I know that the solution must do so. If you can please keep that in mind, we can all be a part of this. Ian
Lizzie Whizz Feb 2023 5:05pm, 4 Feb 2023 27,388 posts	0 Lizzie Whizz
RooA Feb 2023 5:06pm, 4 Feb 2023 2,112 posts	0 RooA 1step2far. If you aren't a Fetchie, you can't read blogs. If you aren't a Fetchie, you can read threads. There's a difference, it is bad manners to quote through from Fetchies-only blogs to the more public forum in my view.