The Coronation
28 watchers
May 2023
10:12am, 7 May 2023
12,031 posts
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Joopsy
We should definitely do more cosying up to the Oil states though.
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May 2023
10:21am, 7 May 2023
30,224 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I kind of go along with the veil of ignorance argument when it comes to whether we should have a monarchy or not. Citizens making choices about their society are asked to make them from an "original position" of equality behind a "veil of ignorance", without knowing what gender, race, abilities, tastes, wealth, or position in society they will have. The claim is that this would cause us to choose "fair" policies. What principles would you select for the basic structure of society if you had no knowledge ahead of time what position you would end up having in that society? Ideally, this would force participants to select principles impartially and rationally. Behind the veil of ignorance nobody would select: A hereditary head of state who was exempt from the laws and taxation that everyone else in society lives by and who, by dint of birth, has a highly privileged role in the governance of the country. They just wouldn’t. But people have been told from day one that this is how it should be because it always has been like this. The monarchy requires reformation at the very least and replacement at the very best. |
May 2023
10:22am, 7 May 2023
21,842 posts
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richmac
So swearing an oath is just a bit of fun? I'm remember that if I'm ever in court |
May 2023
10:26am, 7 May 2023
7,043 posts
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The_Saint
Could someone explain how by an accident of birth and no notable personal attributes or achievements that we are expected to treat someone as if they are a kind of living god? I am not trying to be confrontational, I would just like to hear how someone rationalises this - naturally most people start by claiming that my description above is not accurate. The problem with this is that you do not answer a question by trying to redefine the question to be the way you would like it presented. There is at least one country where it is actually a criminal offence to even ask these kinds of questions of their monarchy, is this where you would like this country to go? If so recent events should give you encouragement. |
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May 2023
10:27am, 7 May 2023
30,225 posts
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Johnny Blaze
Expanding the argument above: if you are born into wealth and privilege “of course” you are going to steer towards maintaining the state of affairs that gave you all your advantages in life. If you are born into poverty and despair, “of course” you are going to want a fairer, more equal society to repair the circumstances of your birth. But what if you were designing a system where you had no assumptions of your likely place in it? A rational person would probably want their ideal society to deliver the greatest good for the greatest number, with no massive inequities in place. The monarchy is the very pinnacle of inequality and that is why you wouldn’t give it house room on your blank sheet of paper. |
May 2023
10:36am, 7 May 2023
49,775 posts
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♪♫ Synge ♪♫
Oh FFS. I’ve got a lot of respect for the Royal Family. I think the monarchy continues to have a place in this country and I enjoyed watching the coronation on TV yesterday. I find myself surprisingly upset by much of what is on this thread. What is it about social media that leads people to criticise criticise criticise? “Not my King” - what does that even mean? It’s so easy for you lot to sit there on your phones and complain and grumble about it all. Are you surprised really that people won’t engage with your arguments? Why should we when they are so often tinged with unpleasantness? Social media always brings forward the malcontents, and most of those who are content with the status quo, in this case the existence of an admittedly imperfect monarchy, just remain silent because we really don’t want to get into online debate with strangers. And so you decide by the use of some weird logic that you are the democratic majority. And all those who are silent, maybe because long ago they learned “if you’ve got nothing nice to say, don’t say it” will engage less and less. I’m muting this thread. |
May 2023
10:50am, 7 May 2023
8,778 posts
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DoricQuine
♪♫ Synge ♪♫ (if you can still read this!) Thank you! I find myself engaging less and less here for that very reason.
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May 2023
10:54am, 7 May 2023
10,903 posts
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Girlie
DoricQuine and Synge, I'm also with you both.
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May 2023
10:57am, 7 May 2023
1,965 posts
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CK2
Thank Johnny Blaze The_Saint and others for some well reasoned and argued but respectful comments. It’s so good to read the analysis of the monarchy and the coronation without the unquestioning worship of so much in the press.
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May 2023
11:05am, 7 May 2023
2,013 posts
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Zorba
Classy behaviour by the Scousers , as always
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