21 Nov
10:33am, 21 Nov 2024
4,233 posts
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Big_G
As I said a few pages back, some farmers are going with government stewardship schemes where they basically lose control of the land in terms of what they harvest, but the payments can secure the business and protect them from years where there are bad harvests, etc. Whether this is the right to thing to be doing in terms of restricting farmers producing food is another question, I suppose.
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21 Nov
10:34am, 21 Nov 2024
30,218 posts
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richmac
It's not punishing them, its taxing them equitably on activities that do not involve food production.
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21 Nov
10:50am, 21 Nov 2024
9,689 posts
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Pothunter
richmachristmas wrote: It's not punishing them, its taxing them equitably on activities that do not involve food production. Agree! The link provided by larks does have some interesting info (and surprisingly not complete bureaucratic gobbledegook!) |
21 Nov
11:10am, 21 Nov 2024
3,570 posts
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Muttley
I'm not sure why farmers should have favourable tax treatment because they feed the nation. The hauliers who transport their produce, the tankers who take the milk to the dairy, the abbatoirs, the wholesale buyers, and the supermarket delivery vans are also feeding the nation -- do they get inheritance tax breaks?
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21 Nov
11:16am, 21 Nov 2024
26,161 posts
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larkim
I get the impression from the HMRC handbook that they do draw some distinctions between different types of business taking place on farmland. Between 1985 and today there will have been plenty of farming deaths involving high value transfers of assets / businesses with the rules being applied and scenarios tested by accountants supporting families through probate to secure the best outcome for their clients, and the tax law will have gradually established what fits within the existing relief and what doesn't. But IANATL so can't comment on the details! |
21 Nov
11:23am, 21 Nov 2024
7,904 posts
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ThorntonRunner
I've been jumping between this thread and the elderly parents thread this morning. The discussion there has been on care costs - which is a totally arbitrary IHT: if your parents need long term care, then all but £23k of your inheritance goes, if they don't need care you're laughing. Get a proper care system in place and fund it with an IHT system that shares the load |
21 Nov
11:44am, 21 Nov 2024
27,696 posts
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Bazoaxe
Larkim. Does that approach to taxation mean you don’t save for a pension and any savings in taxable accounts and not an ISA?
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21 Nov
12:10pm, 21 Nov 2024
7,012 posts
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paulcook
Don’t think we’ll ever see a politician like John Prescott again. Unfortunately.
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21 Nov
12:23pm, 21 Nov 2024
26,162 posts
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larkim
Bazoaxe wrote: Larkim. Does that approach to taxation mean you don’t save for a pension and any savings in taxable accounts and not an ISA? No absolutely not. My approach says I do take all tax advantages offered to me; and for those two in particular both the tax bonus AND the policy intent are clear - we are supposed to take them up. But I don't have a moral problem putting time and effort into using other tax advantages. I know that makes me an outlier here (and I'll be clear, there aren't any that I've actually used, other than framing our Wills in a way which minimises exposure to IHT or local authority care costs if we did ever exceed thresholds; which we won't for IHT, but we would potentially for care costs) but as I've said before I'm not sure you can train as a chartered accountant, sit tax exams where the fundamental answer to the question is to "optimise" tax and then stick my fingers in my ears about what reliefs etc are available). |
21 Nov
12:25pm, 21 Nov 2024
292 posts
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Yakima Canutt
Muttley wrote: But these escape clauses disproportionately benefit those who have wealth and can afford the clever accountants, so they can drive down their contribution in ways that the little people cannot. We often hear that a particular course of action is okay because it's within the rules -- the rules that are set by those who have wealth and privilege and disproportionate input. Many of those in the 1% have complex affairs because with wealth and business interests comes complexity. They will or may own interests in trading companies here and overseas, have managed asset investments like farms and estates. Its not uncommon for staffed family offices to exist to provide the support needed. It because they have assets but its also in managing the staff and the wealth creation they bring that comes with it. And yes clever accountants are needed for that. They are not sitting in candlelight looking for loopholes and schemes. Its about being compliant and taking tax law into account in the way they go about their affairs. Not quite the morally corrupt some paint them out to be. Fields does not want those who plan their IHT to get NHS care. Well the op 10% of earners in the UK also pay 60% of total Income Tax (and that is higher than Skandinavia France and Germany). Given the state of government controlled NHS and state social maybe they could consider tax a charitable gift on top of the private health insurance they might also pay. And my last word on this I am pleased to see JDA considering the impact of tax on the wider family. For the grandmother to qualify she would need to run the farm for 7 years (assuming she is not actually farming it herself) to qualify for relief and that is a long time. My father was a serial entrepreneur and business owner and managed businesses for between 7 and 10 years so it seems as a guide that's not unreasonable to demonstrate a commitment to be more than a fleeting fancy. Even Jereny Clarkson, who might have liked the idea of IHT relief for owning a farm, has actually been managing it as a farm. Clearly if labour adopt the position of most of this thread that any form of statutory tax relief taken by anyone with over a £1m of assets represents the closing of a nefarious avoidance scheme that should be closed the that will create the right conditions for growth as governments have consistently shown they rather than individuals are best placed to create value and opportunity for all. I'm going to shut up now before I get a red card from Lord Fetch. |
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