Dec 2019
1:39pm, 13 Dec 2019
757 posts
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Ally-C
Glasgow is once more a SNP city, it voted Yes in 2014. The joke used to be that Labour weighed their votes there. |
Dec 2019
1:46pm, 13 Dec 2019
2,450 posts
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J2R
Here's a little conundrum I'm hoping someone like Daft Vader or Stander can help me with. I am told that we Remainers must not regard the people who voted to leave the EU as stupid, even though we see doing so as deeply harmful to their own interests. Fair enough. So, then, if indeed leaving the EU is in fact a sensible and wise thing to do, are the vast majority of the population of France and Germany stupid for being dead against it? After all, given that we have a better deal than them, what with our rebates and opt-outs, surely it makes even more sense for them to leave? And if your answer is that we're not in the same boat, that things in the EU are rigged in favour of France and Germany (an argument I've often heard), then isn't this a cause for alarm? We are about to leave the EU and, we are told, bestride the world like a colossus, and yet we cannot fight our corner within the EU against France and Germany. How are we going to get on against the vastly more powerful USA and China? |
Dec 2019
1:48pm, 13 Dec 2019
5,978 posts
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jda
WWYLGOI is the answer to life, the universe, and everything |
Dec 2019
1:49pm, 13 Dec 2019
9,767 posts
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larkim
In motorsport there is a quote tossed around often along the lines of "To finish first, first you must finish". Labour need to understand the equivalence of that in politics - in order to implement policies, they need to get elected. The fear is that that the PLP currently is skewed towards the Corbynistas, the membership has been swelled in similar regards, and the powerful unions will continue to have the pull towards the left. With the new leader having to emerge from there, it's hard to see someone like Starmer becoming the consensus candidate. We live in hope. |
Dec 2019
1:50pm, 13 Dec 2019
16,133 posts
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GimmePeaceOnEarth
“What's really got to me, though, is Scunthorpe, a formerly vibrant town built on British Steel, which has been spiralling into decline for two generations due to the sale of British Steel, voting for the party that sold off British Steel, because apparently "high EU tariffs on steel mean we can't sell steel overseas". They don't get it, never will, so they can have what they've voted for, put up and shut up!” What DeeGee said ^^^ The Scunthorpe constituency is where my home is and we’ve had a decent Labour MP for years. He lost by 6000 votes yesterday because all the town wants is Brexit. I can’t understand why. The steelworks has been affected by it and still isn’t definitely secured a long future - it’s been taken over numerous times in the past 2 decades. Another local company went into receivership out of the blue this week. I don’t understand what this “control” is that “we’re taking back”. It will still be someone in a city miles away making decisions about our lives with no more input from us up here. And how will it be better when immigration is stopped? But, at least, Boris Johnson can only blame himself if the future is bleak, not complain about other parties that have stopped him getting his policies done. |
Dec 2019
1:59pm, 13 Dec 2019
5,713 posts
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Northern Exile
Some opinions on Corbyn from the illustrious Mr Toynbee: theguardian.com |
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Dec 2019
2:02pm, 13 Dec 2019
5,714 posts
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Northern Exile
Mr ?  Sorry, Ms
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Dec 2019
2:02pm, 13 Dec 2019
15,604 posts
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Chrisull
larks - Unions will back Starmer if he cuts deals with them. And they will prefer him to Phillips or Thornberry, because they are men, and he is a man. The Corbynites have already spoken approvingly of his loyalty. Under half of the people who voted for Corbyn will still back him. I know that for a fact (as I know a heap of former backers across the country). Let's face there are no other leadership in the wings from the Corbynite section. Hence they have been grooming Long Bailey, but they know it's much too soon for her. That's why the front bench is filled with non-entities (and Starmer and Thornberry). And also larks you forget, from J2R's immaculate post. This is like student politics. It is. And what do the far left do in student politics? Fight and factionalise. Corbyn was the General Tito of the piece, once he steps down, they won't be able to unite around a successor, because they never had been able to. Corbyn was that once in a lifetime opportunity. |
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Dec 2019
2:12pm, 13 Dec 2019
9,769 posts
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larkim
I hope so Chris. Sad that the party who won't elect a woman is the one that really should, but I sense you're not far wrong - the bar for a woman as leader of the Labour Party is a high one to clear. I'd read that Polly T article earlier - the second half of it is absolutely on the money as far as I can tell in its analysis of where it all was going wrong. |
Dec 2019
2:17pm, 13 Dec 2019
18,199 posts
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Carpathius
J2R, I think that's a very good question and I would very much like an answer. It might help me understand.
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