|
Dec 2019
11:05am, 13 Dec 2019
22,972 posts
|
Johnny Blaze
I am a Labour voter and have been since 1979. I have been lurking around on a number of Labour Party forums on fb - both for the left-leaning Corbynites and the right-leaning "Blairite dispossessed".
There is a certain amount of jubilation in the right-leaning groups that this defeat will see off Corbyn. There is a lot of blame-laying on the Corbynite groups on who caused this defeat - primarily Remainers, centrists and the MSM but certainly not Jeremy himself. It's all quite depressing.
Labour will take a long time to come back from this and the Tories will, in the interim, start to re-cast "the system" in ways that favour their own cause. Voter ID, page 48 of the manifesto, resisting calls to clean up the funding of political parties, all that stuff. Will the Russian report ever see the light of day?
Lots of moves right out of the populist nationalist playbook in fact. They have learnt a lot from the US experience - if you are pushing the right nationalist buttons all you need is a shameless front-man who will peddle tripe without any compunction and people will lap it up. Meanwhile the forces that lurk behind him slowly work away delivering their own agenda using his mandate as approval.
The country is in an awful mess right now and I don't see how we get out of it. We are sliding towards something - dunno what, but I suspect it will be 20 years of Tory government, minimum. Much like last time. Socialism will not rescue us from it. We need a strong social democratic party to reclaim the centre ground abandoned by Labour. Older heads will be aware that we have been through this cycle before, and not that long ago...
|
|
Dec 2019
11:14am, 13 Dec 2019
9,763 posts
|
larkim
Great summary J2R - I think you're right, in the main. The only area where I'd differ is that back in 2015 I don't think he really harboured ambitions of taking over the Labour Party - he enjoyed his role as a thorn in the side of a moderate leadership and could pick and choose his campaigns based on his fundamental principles.
No-one really believed the Labour Party was ripe for such a take over at the time, did they?
|
|
Dec 2019
11:37am, 13 Dec 2019
7,856 posts
|
leaguefreak
Another one agreeing with j2r.
I don't post a lot on this thread but i read it. It's one of the few places people with differing opinions are interacting and actually saying things. This was the norm in my family and I am trying to raise my kids this way.
For what it's worth I'm a floating voter on principle. As is my mother. I cannot see that any movement will ever have the monopoly on strategy to steer a country through every possible scenario so I find myself unable to commit to always supporting one group. Each election I make my choice and I cast my vote. Spaces like this are invaluable to me. I wish we were talking more in the real world.
And I hope we can soon have a credible opposition as this has been sorely lacking. We "ditherers" need it regardless of the flavour of those in power to make sure ideology cannot go unchecked.
|
|
Dec 2019
11:43am, 13 Dec 2019
36,679 posts
|
Ding Derby merrily on Tup
Good contributions from J2R. We need a John Smith figure now (again)
|
|
Dec 2019
11:50am, 13 Dec 2019
9,313 posts
|
rf_fozzy
I don't think it'll take 10 years (or longer) for change.
Not once reality bites into the lies and "promises" made.
*But* Labour (and the Lib Dems for that matter) do have to think about how they go about Politics.
And for Labour, this should be a lesson that it needs to go with the Greens, LDs and even the Brexit Party and support electoral reform. If they aren't going to win seats in Scotland and the Conservatives can challenge them in Wales and the North, then their only way to power has to be through PR and coalitional governments.
|
|
Dec 2019
11:51am, 13 Dec 2019
7,857 posts
|
leaguefreak
Indeed. His untimely death was a tragedy.
I can still remember the exact moment I heard. Things then followed a very different course.
Mostly I think we need proper statesmen and women. I actually wish Ken Clarke hadn't retired this time. And that's saying something.
Mo Mowlam was another loss to the nation. Just for floating voter balance......
|
|
Dec 2019
11:52am, 13 Dec 2019
7,858 posts
|
leaguefreak
Fozzy I think the Tories may get away with blaming the EU for a good bit longer. It's worked well for them so far. No reason for them not to spin the brexit process that way.
|
|
Dec 2019
11:54am, 13 Dec 2019
36,682 posts
|
Ding Derby merrily on Tup
Blame anyone but yourself
|
|
Dec 2019
11:57am, 13 Dec 2019
43,407 posts
|
Diogenes
lf, that is something I have thought often over the years re. John Smith
|
|
Dec 2019
12:05pm, 13 Dec 2019
5,711 posts
|
Northern Exile
Excellent summary J2R, I nodded my head at every sentence
|
Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
