Dec 2019
10:43am, 13 Dec 2019
6,157 posts
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Dooogs
DG - not all of us are blaming you lot! As a relatively centrist, remainer Labour member, I still think there's a lot of room for co-operation between the two parties under more visionary leadership. Swinson / Lucas / Price had the right idea in trying to get a progressive alliance. I'm hoping there's a less tribal Labour leader coming up, although I suspect it might be the next but one/two... |
Dec 2019
10:50am, 13 Dec 2019
192 posts
|
TommyK
Simbil said: "...The predictable claims of mandates have started a pace. Anyone care to explain how 44% of people who chose to vote and voted Tory is a majority view?..." The Conservatives would appear to agree. "..Scottish Secretary Alister Jack, who held Dumfries and Galloway for the Conservatives, said more people cast votes for unionist parties in Scotland than for the SNP. And he was adamant the prime minister should continue to block Ms Sturgeon's calls for power to hold an independence ballot..." bbc.co.uk |
Dec 2019
10:50am, 13 Dec 2019
9,762 posts
|
larkim
DeeGee, I'm a Labour supporter and I'm blaming Corbyn!  THough I agree, Corbyn acolytes are busy blaming everyone other than themselves - Centrists, the media, russian political interference, voter fraud, etc etc. They simply cannot see that what they walked into was an election where, rightly or wrongly, the population were persuaded that Corbyn was not someone they wanted as PM under any circumstances. The press is never going to help someone like Corbyn - so the Corbynistas just moaning that the defeat is down to the press is just a great example of how narrow minded they are; they can't see that they have to first accept the position of the press and then work out how to get elected despite it (or bring the press on board). Like it or not, that's what Blair / Campbell realised - they could only get elected if they could ensure that the media narrative helped them, so they had to get their hands dirty in making that happen. Corbyn et al admirably want to win despite the press, and that's not going to happen. We now have the huge irony that that most entitled of the Tory leaders for years is now has huge swathes of the northern working class behind him, and the most passionate advocate for the power of the working class has effectively pushed them away from the Labour party. We are where we are now. At least there is clarity, and its time to hope that it won't be as bad as we fear. And I hope the Party wakes up and realises that there's no point in being right if you can't gain power through the ballot box. |
Dec 2019
10:53am, 13 Dec 2019
43,403 posts
|
Diogenes
Simbil, when calling Johnson a fuckwit I am very specifically calling him and him alone by that name. I find it offensive that people call him Boris or Bojo like he's their mate, or someone in a less serious position that PM. What I would love is for someone to put up a reasoned explanation of how one leader can be so vilified for his perceived personality defects and and another elected despite of them? One hides from difficult questions and tough interviewers, consistently lies and changes opinions, the other refuses to bend his position to court public popularity: which is the better behaviour? I am not a Labour supporter. I am a "small l" liberal with a natural inclination to light-touch government and free market economics. There is no party that represents me, but I know who I distrust more. |
Dec 2019
10:54am, 13 Dec 2019
2,445 posts
|
J2R
Dooogs, yes, you're right. I think they need to shake off the deadly stranglehold of Momentum AND Murphy, Milne and McCluskey! The big problem is that for the last few years the party has been doing exactly the same as it did back in the early to mid 80s, focusing its hatred and anger more against the moderates within the party than against the government (which makes a much more difficult target). To hear the Labour Left railing against Centrists, you'd think they were the real bitter enemy, not the Conservatives. 'Blairite' is almost as negative as 'fascist'. And yet Blair is the only Labour leader to have actually won a General Election in the last 45 years, and his government did a lot of good, alongside the couple of serious mistakes for which he is now seemingly exclusively remembered on the Left. The Labour Party needs to quit the historical revisionism and talk up some of the good points of that 1997-2010 period, instead of treating it like the Black Death (thereby massively helping the Tories). For one thing, they need to quash this idiot new 'truth' that the Labour government somehow caused the 2008 financial crash. Despite the fact that the Conservatives are wilfully going to damage the economy to the tune of at least 6%, according to the government's own figures, they still managed to portray themselves as the economic safe pair of hands, as a result of a revisionist rewrite of the economic history of Labour's period in office, a rewrite which the current Labour party have done nothing to correct. |
Dec 2019
10:57am, 13 Dec 2019
22,933 posts
|
Sushi.
Dio - yes I'm stalking you 🤣 I agree re the whole name thing. |
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Dec 2019
11:00am, 13 Dec 2019
2,446 posts
|
J2R
Diogenes, larkim is right. It's manifestly unjust that the two party leaders are treated so differently, but you have to get the press behind you or you're toast, there's no point complaining about it, it's just the way it is. One of Corbyn's big issues is the complete unwillingness to get his hands dirty with compromise in the way you need to in order to get power and actually do something. His followers admire him for this, but for me it's just student politics - it's easy to remain pure as long as you don't have to do anything. And really, I've never been convinced Corbyn and his acolytes want the power of high office, which is much too awkward and messy. No, they've managed to take over the Labour Party, and that's probably enough for them.
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Dec 2019
11:01am, 13 Dec 2019
6,465 posts
|
The_Saint
My wife is from Madeira, it is really hard to explain to someone from another country how 13,941,200 people voted for a political party who favour tax cuts to billionaires over services to the general population and that tiny proportion of the UK's population of 66.44 million give that party a landslide. It is even harder to explain how many of that 13.9 million (21% of the population) are motivated to a large extent by xenophobia towards people like her. I could say that we have become a nasty country who like the nasty party best but the truth is our crazy electoral system allows this farce. |
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Dec 2019
11:03am, 13 Dec 2019
43,404 posts
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Diogenes
J2R, that is a very good summary
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Dec 2019
11:05am, 13 Dec 2019
24,965 posts
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Wriggling Snake
I'd go along with that J2R, that's what I meant (a long while back about looking up his own arse), he wanted control of the labour party, it is his big problem, you are with us or against us, he's been doing and saying the same for 30 years. Dio I think you mis-read the use of Bojo in particular, that is used, or at least I use it, to show he is an arsehole. |
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