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Aug 2019
12:13pm, 16 Aug 2019
6,544 posts
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Jovi Runner
OK - so how do you define "female" (just so we're clear).
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Aug 2019
12:18pm, 16 Aug 2019
11 posts
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Gee-Rizzle
Anybody identifying as female
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Aug 2019
12:19pm, 16 Aug 2019
6,545 posts
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Jovi Runner
Anybody identifying as a female? Really - so basically any man who says he's a woman. Surely I am not the only poster here who thinks that is an utterly ridiculous statement and completely discriminatory to female born women?
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Aug 2019
12:20pm, 16 Aug 2019
6,546 posts
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Jovi Runner
No, I can'rt see how that could be open to abuse at all.....
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Aug 2019
12:26pm, 16 Aug 2019
12 posts
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Gee-Rizzle
do you know what is far more open to abuse? Requiring genital examination, hormone testing, or any other form of screening just to enter a local 10k as a woman. Who do you test? What testing is ok? Would you ok being blood tested just to enter a race?
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Aug 2019
12:27pm, 16 Aug 2019
3,068 posts
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Raemond
You're by far the troliest poster in this thread, Jovi (nota bene - I'm not saying that you are a troll, just that you come closest to being one while falling just short. please try to restrain yourself from saying I've called you a troll), you twist words and skitter between different objections that are pure 'what-about-ery' whenever confronted with a reasonable rebuttal while imploring everyone else to stay ' on topic'.
You've effectively silenced the fetchies who either are trans or have trans loved ones.
I'd say I hope you're proud of yourself, but I have no doubt that you are, extremely.
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Aug 2019
12:32pm, 16 Aug 2019
6,547 posts
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Jovi Runner
GeeRizzle - Yes, I am more than happy to have a blood test that results in an XX or XY defintiion thereby confirming I am indeed a woman.
I have trans friends and respect that they have every right to live their lives how they choose. But getting back (again!) to the subject of this thread this is about how transgdner athletes impact the future of female born women's sport and as such is not unreasonable to request that the deifnition of female be clarified. As I have previously one can hold the view that they have absolutely no problem at all with regarding transwoman as woman but still hold the opinion that transgender athletes have an unfair advantage over natal females.
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Aug 2019
12:36pm, 16 Aug 2019
6,875 posts
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Jambomo
I think we are conflating two separate issues here.
Issue A - of people identifying themselves and male/female for the purpose of simply living their lives in the gender they feel they belong to.
Issue B - of activities and events which are traditionally separated in to binary gender categories of male & female, due to biological differences.
Issue A has less (i only tentatively suggest) direct impact on the right of people's everyday lives. It really has little impact to my own rights if things such as single-cubical changing and same-sex toilets become common. I do not think that there is real evidence that suggests trans men/women will increase the risk of harm to other women due to measures such as this or others that aim to help inclusivity.
Issue B does have an impact on the rights of others (mainly other women) because the question becomes about biology rather than simply a will to want equality and fairness. Fairness does need to be for all both transgender women and cis women. As Jovi pointed out, although the research is limited, there is some evidence that points to biological males having continued physiological advantage and as V'rap pointed out advantage of opportunities as well.
More research needs to be done into the advantage of males of females and what lasting effects transitioning has. Then much more discussion with the results can take place. We simply don't have the evidence yet to come to proper conclusions.
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Aug 2019
12:38pm, 16 Aug 2019
13 posts
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Gee-Rizzle
It isn’t the definition of female that is important. It is the definition of who can compete in female sport. I’ve set out what I believe is a completely fair definition of this.
The issue with your proposal is that it inevitably results in transwomen being defined as something other than female. Which is unnecessary and unnecessarily harmful. They can be both female and unable to compete in elite female sport.
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Aug 2019
12:39pm, 16 Aug 2019
4,959 posts
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jda
It does seem to me that the reports of the death of women's sport have been somewhat exaggerated.
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Gender identity, please help change
Jun 2021