Transgender Athletes

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GetOutTheDoor Oct 2023 10:18am, 3 Oct 2023 395 posts	0 GetOutTheDoor Thank you Minnie Mad and LindsD.
SPR Oct 2023 10:20am, 3 Oct 2023 42,869 posts	0 SPR When you say that it isn't an issue because it's small, all you then end up with is targeted policy when it becomes an issue later. Sorting things generally is always going to be the better option. In reality, it is always going to be a small subset of the population given the starting point needed for it to become an issue. I didn't think the argument was about records though, records would just make it easy to highlight. The argument about why parkrun records anything has been had since the days of 'its not a race'. We know that the recording is part of the appeal though.
Groundhog Oct 2023 10:32am, 3 Oct 2023 5,776 posts	0 Groundhog I could see that if the WRN or similar campaigning at parkrun was seen as a problem by HQ that they could ultimately remove all of the results categories and revert to a pure time trial with only your own or French style results. It is perhaps too simplistic of me to say please leave things as they are and parkrun is not the right target, but maybe be it does not serve parkrun's inclusive goals to maintain competitive results?
larkim Oct 2023 10:35am, 3 Oct 2023 22,179 posts	0 larkim Agree with the sentiments above. I just think parkrun is the wrong target here. Records etc are the tip of the issue though for the WRN advocates; their stance, which I don't find fault with, is that if there are female course records held by people who went through puberty as boys / men, then there's a woman placed in 2nd who doesn't get the warm fuzzy feeling of holding a course record. That's simple to understand which is why they talk about it. But they are also right that every place in every run is affected, and whilst most people probably would say they don't care whether they place 34th or 35th in their gender, the logic remains sound. The problem for parkrun from the WRN tactics is that it seems pretty obvious that at some point a strong willed WRN group will meet up with one or more strong willed trans females at an event and, if the tone of the discussion in the public domain is anything to go by, it won't be a pleasant experience for either of the participants, nor the event team nor the participants. I'd hope HQ can see that risk and do something to address it, though short of finding a magic policy which appeases everyone I doubt they'll have much success.
LindsD Oct 2023 10:49am, 3 Oct 2023 64,232 posts	0 LindsD As an ex-ED and a committed RD and core team member, I feel very strongly that parkrun is the wrong target. But then I would. And MM has a point. Results are often out by a place or two. There's always next week. I know, however, that argument doesn't work with people who feel that they are generally unfairly treated in a particular situation.
hellywobs Oct 2023 11:04am, 3 Oct 2023 268 posts	0 hellywobs Whatever your views on this, there is an aspect which I think parkrun does need to reform and that's the retrospective effect of changing gender. If a male runner decides that he is now female, all his results going back to whatever time would be changed to female, displacing all the female results below his/hers. If that person is particularly fast, they may well push a lot of first finishing females down a place. Even if you think it's fine for male bodied people to compete in womens' categories, you can't make it retrospective. It can only apply to future events. I am not sure parkrun systems are set up for it though, as I think running club changes are retrospective too.
hellywobs Oct 2023 11:05am, 3 Oct 2023 269 posts	0 hellywobs I could see that if the WRN or similar campaigning at parkrun was seen as a problem by HQ that they could ultimately remove all of the results categories and revert to a pure time trial with only your own or French style results. It is perhaps too simplistic of me to say please leave things as they are and parkrun is not the right target, but maybe be it does not serve parkrun's inclusive goals to maintain competitive results? I suspect this is the way things are heading.
paulcook Oct 2023 11:12am, 3 Oct 2023 3,307 posts	0 paulcook In terms of retrospective changes, when I first changed my club it changed all my previous results to with that club. Last time I changed my club it didn't make the retrospective changes to all my results. I wonder if that is in response to something like this issue above.
fetcheveryone Oct 2023 11:22am, 3 Oct 2023 29,628 posts	0 fetcheveryone It may just be down to database structure. If the club name and gender are stored in an ‘athletes’ table, you’d expect all results to pull in whatever is the current value. However, if club name and gender are stored in the ‘results’ table, then it makes it possible for these to have different values over time.
LindsD Oct 2023 11:27am, 3 Oct 2023 64,233 posts	0 LindsD hellywobs that's not what happens. Here's an extract from the policy Should an existing parkrunner change their gender identity on their parkrun profile, their results history will remain unchanged, however going forward results will be presented as per their current gender.