Sub 3Hr Marathon
314 watchers
May 2023
6:20am, 19 May 2023
204 posts
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Miser
Really interesting chat and some great conversions here. I’ve recently been thinking that more conservative is better after running Brighton very comfortably off relatively little training. I set myself a range of sub 3:10 (fine) vs picking it up in final 8 miles for sub3:05. Did this on the button and felt great. Knew I wasn’t in sub 3 shape and didn’t really care beyond this which helped… Given the effort and one shot nature of marathons my thinking has been better to get a good result rather than a stellar one (short of having a major round number target). Which comes back to a target conversion number. I think 2x +15 should be doable for most(!), but anything below this needs serious discipline and self-knowledge! |
May 2023
8:15am, 19 May 2023
2,248 posts
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Brunski
I'm a terrible converter, reckon my best is HM x2 +15ish.
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May 2023
9:14am, 19 May 2023
24,880 posts
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Bazoaxe
I’m usually somewhere around x2 + 5, my best was x2 + 3:25 and that was a flat fast HM too. Significantly better wava for the marathon too. Is jda a brilliant converter or a rubbish half marathoner 
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May 2023
2:28pm, 21 May 2023
591 posts
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damo_HAC
I think a lot is down to the training. If you do a lot of shorter speedwork 200s/400s you will be good at 5k/10k (relative to half/full), but if your speedwork is 1k/1mi reps sprinkled with tempos/MP efforts then you will more likely succeed at the longer distance (relative to 5k/10k). Cant train for everything all at once.
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May 2023
3:57pm, 21 May 2023
14,848 posts
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jda
Definitely a training effect but a chunk of natural aptitude for specific distances. At the extreme, Bolt and Kipchoge couldn’t change places and be as successful, and even when thinking about 5k vs marathon, there are plenty who don’t really stretch from one to the other (tho some do).
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May 2023
10:29am, 22 May 2023
2,249 posts
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Brunski
I agree jda, I think a lot depends on genetics, body shape, and what exercises and diet you had growing up. Look at a 5k/10k and you get more variety in runner shape at the sharp end than you do in a marathon. I think everyone has their natural fit in the speed vs endurance scale. You can definitely train to be better at your less preferred end of the scale but if you were to build the perfect marathoner they'd be naturally slim, not overly tall, with big strong calf muscles and little other bulk. |
May 2023
12:13pm, 22 May 2023
2,695 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
I have been thinking about this alot, but did not dare to talk about it, to possibly offend talented runners by implying that they have it easier. But with that said, sometimes it's just ridiculous. I listen to a podcast just today, about two marathon runners trying to break 3h. They interviewed a "normal guy", that did the same "later" in life around 30-40 i think, and then wrote a book about it, targeting "normal people like him".. He had "no" training background at all (Years and years of competitive orienteering and a lot of other sports, always stood out in running one and so on.) But, he really started from nothing i his mind.. He worked his ass off, when he started again, according to himself. (30-40 km per week for a while, and before he tried sub 3, he did a massive marathon block of 6 weeks, with a top milage of 60km pw and no long runs over 25 km i think he said....) Nowhere in this interview did he talked about "i might have a for talent for this". But implied that that's what it takes to do sub 3 h marathon.. Period.. And this is mostly what i hear and read about, never really hear about those who struggle with less than ideal potential. I'm sure a lot of you guys here might be them though. And a lot of interviews are like that. I mean a lot of the people in my proximity thinks i'm one of the ones that have it easy, thats why im so fast, "without any training"... so everything is relative of course. Sooo, i think i'm pretty normal genetically, whatever that means, never fastest when i was young, quite the opposite, never really stood out endurance wise, even though i was in the military for a few years in an "competitive branch" with some gnarly tests and outings, that i barely survived :). I'm slightly below "average" height, and used to easily gain fat or muscles, before i started to run more. I wonder what it takes for someone like me to improve and how much training it will take. I want to hear those stories!
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May 2023
2:53pm, 22 May 2023
2,250 posts
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Brunski
Bowman - where I struggle is do you train your weakness or your strength? Take jda for example, I'd feel reasonably comfortable having him covered over the shorter races upto 10k, but when we get toward HM it'd be a lot closer, and over a marathon I'd he watching him disappear to finish 5+ minutes infront if me. You would say jda had more natural talent over the marathon than full tilt speed. I think most training should be adapted to suit your natural tendency of speed or endurance. If I run hard too often I think I burn out, whereas some can handle more hard training to inch up their pace over time whilst maintaining their natural endurance. I feel I probably need the opposite - a lot of easy running (to build up the endurance fibres), a bit of threshold, and possibly not very much speedwork at all until I'm preparing to race. But I enjoy the speedwork and running quicker more than doing the easy stuff. Bit of a quandary really.... |
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May 2023
3:03pm, 22 May 2023
2,696 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
I'm not really sure of what i'm better at Brunski Maybe leaning towards endurance, more than speed anyway. But i also tend to get better at speed when i do more speed, but as you say, i can't really tolerate that much of it and i get burned out. So far i have done most of my serius training quite polarized, and that have done wonders for sure. But what's the next step i wonder. More of the same, a year is nothing and it's just to keep at it maybe. |
May 2023
6:15pm, 22 May 2023
6,497 posts
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Little Miss Happy
Bowman - I think the answer to your question is basically 'more miles'. I ran a (just) sub 4.30 marathon at my first attempt in 2005 having been training as much as I thought I could for a bit over a year and not having done anything before that for a good twenty years due to illness. I ran a sub 3 as a 49 year old woman having run as many miles as I could fit in to life and cope with physically. I'm talking 100 miles or so in the peak weeks. I do not do any speed, hills, intervals and rarely race. Of course I ran consistently between those time so my base fitness/endurance increased. Consistent consistency is what I need.
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