7 Aug
2:09pm, 7 Aug 2024
17,595 posts
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jda
I'm not convinced the "better situation" vs "worse situation" actually matters in any real sense. People believe what they are told and have a rose-tinted view of the past when they were kids playing out in the streets and the days were long and sunny and they ate grass but were happy blah blah. Discontent is a state of mind not a physical condition. |
7 Aug
2:30pm, 7 Aug 2024
50,633 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
3M wrote: I think there is a complex mix of issues underpinning the causes of these disturbances, @HappyG(rrr). I may well miss out a few factors, but: 1) Over the past few years, it's become more acceptable in some circles to be, basically, racist and bigoted. Dare I say it, Brexit emboldened the factions that were previously well hidden in our society, since it was ok to be "Proud to be British" (usually "English") and the "others" were clearly inferior (to those people) in some way. 2) Living standards in Western society as a whole (excepting the top few %, of course) have taken a bit of a squeeze under the last 16 years, since the global banking crash of 2008, after pretty much consistent improvement since the post WW2 era. Lots of people feel aggrieved about this, despite their actual living standard still being higher compared to most of human history. 3) I don't subscribe to the Illuminati conspiracy type ideas, but I do believe there's an "emergent system" arisen as a result of the rich and super rich being determined to hang on to and increase what they already have, strongly Capitalist businesses taking a larger percentage of the wealth of society out of the hands of the many, and a few particularly (spectacularly) selfish and unprincipled individuals using that to their advantage. 4) The leading/most vocal "right wing" who comprise a good chunk of the people in (3) are very good at presenting the problem as being not one of (mostly their) greed, but of too many people "competing" for limited social resources - houses, healthcare, education, benefits etc. 5) Human nature makes it very easy to point the finger of blame at other people, and this as been "weaponised", largely by the same people, leading to the situation we see over the last few weeks. 6) People get stupider in mobs. ( bbc.com ) The longer term answer is probably about removing the "fuel" from the fire - having demonstrably better situations for all, and not having people discontented in society in any great numbers. The short term one... I think my sympathies lie with those who want to see water cannon used to clear the rioters. Brilliant summary 3M. Support both those conclusions.  G
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7 Aug
2:52pm, 7 Aug 2024
45,558 posts
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SPR
jda wrote: I'm not convinced the "better situation" vs "worse situation" actually matters in any real sense. People believe what they are told and have a rose-tinted view of the past when they were kids playing out in the streets and the days were long and sunny and they ate grass but were happy blah blah. Discontent is a state of mind not a physical condition. But discontent can be more widespread if more people are struggling for whatever reason. |
7 Aug
2:55pm, 7 Aug 2024
5,571 posts
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J2R
I think this is an excellent article: opendemocracy.net
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7 Aug
2:59pm, 7 Aug 2024
17,596 posts
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jda
True but discontent can be whipped up without meaningful cause. Ask people what they think about violent crime for example. My mother is discontented about the number of immigrants, she's always been comfortably off, never been unable to afford a house, many of those providing her healthcare have probably been immigrants (though perhaps not a huge proportion in her location). Immigrants have done nothing to her. She was discontented about "the bloody EU" despite enjoying regular easy cheap holidays there, the water quality on the local beach being improved, and all the rest. It never had anything to do with the reality of her situation or anything the EU actually did. Of course there's a broad spectrum of people with her political views and some of them may have a genuine grievance even if the target is wrong. But from my experience many of them never had any genuine grievances at all, just imaginary ones. You can't solve imaginary grievances with practical solutions. |
7 Aug
3:00pm, 7 Aug 2024
21,224 posts
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Dave W
I think that alcohol will have had a bearing on it as well. Mob mentality is always helped along by a few lagers or a couple of lines of coke.
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7 Aug
3:15pm, 7 Aug 2024
69,206 posts
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LindsD
So true jda. I had to agree to disagree with my mother just last week when she was trying to tell me that the world was much more violent now, on the grounds that some people had been stabbed. She has been burgled once but otherwise has never been a victim of crime and has, since she married my Dad, had a decently comfortable standard of living. She watches too much shit TV.
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7 Aug
3:59pm, 7 Aug 2024
28,845 posts
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richmac
This is how the RW has slowly built the narrative though, the world is more violent now, there's more immigration, it must be linked , immigrants are the cause, your a patriot if you loot a greggs.
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7 Aug
4:18pm, 7 Aug 2024
69,209 posts
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LindsD
Yup.
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7 Aug
4:27pm, 7 Aug 2024
9,277 posts
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Pothunter
People get stupider in mobs Present company excluded of course
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