7 Aug
8:54am, 7 Aug 2024
32,898 posts
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Johnny Blaze
He's a scrapper. There is hope.
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7 Aug
9:58am, 7 Aug 2024
50,631 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Fingers crossed for USA. Right, back to UK. What hope for this country, with the horrendous violence, destruction, intimidation, openly racist language and general state of the nation? Is government cracking down hard enough or too hard? Is this a noisy and thuggish minority or are there wider and valid societal concerns to be addressed? What else can and should the government be doing to address immediate violence, incitement, threats and criminality and in the longer term to identify and address any fundamental causes?  G
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7 Aug
11:05am, 7 Aug 2024
28,839 posts
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richmac
It's not that simple, as i see it. I see Farage et al convincing not very clever people that haven't done well in life that it's all the fault of immigrants & people like Farage & his banking mates. They are using violence & the threat of violence to force a false narrative into prominence in a bid to look like champions of the people for their own gain, which would ultimately be power ans a fascist state. They say they want a conversation about immigration, but only one that is entirely made up of everyone agreeing with the UK slamming it's boarders shut & expelling people who are not white, leading to the country being a farworse place. |
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7 Aug
11:21am, 7 Aug 2024
50,632 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Agree with all of that rich. So what should be done? Call Farage and others out for falsehoods and even gag them by prosecuting them for incitement? Or does it have to be more of an education? That's going to be very slow. What about more immediate counter messaging? Who? Govt? Or NGOs? Or community groups? Or will that just be ineffective for these idiot rioters? |
7 Aug
11:22am, 7 Aug 2024
22,869 posts
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rf_fozzy
I suspect that, much as in 2011, the riots will have little lasting political impact.
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7 Aug
11:45am, 7 Aug 2024
69,201 posts
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LindsD
(c) Denis Lushch from Victoria, Australia. |
7 Aug
12:10pm, 7 Aug 2024
45,557 posts
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SPR
I think if it was just Farage, maybe we'd be ok (and he probably wouldn't be an MP) but the mainstream certainly signal immigration as a real problem. Clearly they think they have no choice but the more it's fed the more there's no choice. I also hope Labour can find a way to improve things for people so the messages hold less weight. Many of the Tories of course want to feed it and I see that Jenrick is comparing protests where protesters shout Allahu Akbar with those where there's violence as an example of two tier policing. Unless he's been misquoted it seems a text book case of Islamophobia. |
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7 Aug
12:41pm, 7 Aug 2024
28,841 posts
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richmac
rf_fozzy wrote: I suspect that, much as in 2011, the riots will have little lasting political impact. Perhaps but in 2011 we didn't have MP's & media outlets hinting the riots are justified & talking smack about 2 tier policing |
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7 Aug
12:57pm, 7 Aug 2024
22,870 posts
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rf_fozzy
richmac wrote: rf_fozzy wrote:I suspect that, much as in 2011, the riots will have little lasting political impact. Perhaps but in 2011 we didn't have MP's & media outlets hinting the riots are justified & talking smack about 2 tier policing I defer to the experts: nitter.poast.org |
7 Aug
1:04pm, 7 Aug 2024
24,547 posts
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3M
I think there is a complex mix of issues underpinning the causes of these disturbances, @HappyG(rrr). I may well miss out a few factors, but: 1) Over the past few years, it's become more acceptable in some circles to be, basically, racist and bigoted. Dare I say it, Brexit emboldened the factions that were previously well hidden in our society, since it was ok to be "Proud to be British" (usually "English") and the "others" were clearly inferior (to those people) in some way. 2) Living standards in Western society as a whole (excepting the top few %, of course) have taken a bit of a squeeze under the last 16 years, since the global banking crash of 2008, after pretty much consistent improvement since the post WW2 era. Lots of people feel aggrieved about this, despite their actual living standard still being higher compared to most of human history. 3) I don't subscribe to the Illuminati conspiracy type ideas, but I do believe there's an "emergent system" arisen as a result of the rich and super rich being determined to hang on to and increase what they already have, strongly Capitalist businesses taking a larger percentage of the wealth of society out of the hands of the many, and a few particularly (spectacularly) selfish and unprincipled individuals using that to their advantage. 4) The leading/most vocal "right wing" who comprise a good chunk of the people in (3) are very good at presenting the problem as being not one of (mostly their) greed, but of too many people "competing" for limited social resources - houses, healthcare, education, benefits etc. 5) Human nature makes it very easy to point the finger of blame at other people, and this as been "weaponised", largely by the same people, leading to the situation we see over the last few weeks. 6) People get stupider in mobs. ( bbc.com ) The longer term answer is probably about removing the "fuel" from the fire - having demonstrably better situations for all, and not having people discontented in society in any great numbers. The short term one... I think my sympathies lie with those who want to see water cannon used to clear the rioters.
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