5 Jul
8:38pm, 5 Jul 2024
9,887 posts
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simbil
Think jda is correct, at least in terms of the way it works right now. The government are the executive and set direction whilst the civil service are the experts that tell the gov what is possible and how much it costs, and implement the decisions. Where the Tories overreached was in going to war with 'the blob' and not listening to the people who are experts in the field when they say something is illegal / impractacal / just batshit crazy. |
5 Jul
8:49pm, 5 Jul 2024
17,406 posts
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jda
Politicians definitely need to have experts to inform them how things work, what policies may generate their preferred outcomes (and conversely, what might be the likely outcomes from their preferred policy choices). Experts have no particular insight as to what the priorities should be. This is all well known dating back to the time of Hume. en.wikipedia.org TBH I'm really quite disturbed at the idea that an unelected technocrat should be appointed to a senior policy-making position. It runs contrary to the fundamentals of british democracy. In the specific case of Vallance, he also lied repeatedly to two covid inquiries so as to cover up the incompetence of the scientific advisory committee he headed up, which isn't a great start. |
5 Jul
8:55pm, 5 Jul 2024
24,988 posts
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larkim
But not all experts are created equally. Out of pools of experts come people with both technical insight and the ability to manage / develop policy and strategy. Find the right individual and you get the best of both worlds. Sprinkle a government team with those sorts of people and you have a well balanced ministerial team. |
5 Jul
8:59pm, 5 Jul 2024
5,718 posts
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paulcook
I was going to ask the devil's advocate question, are these not unelected ministers. But jda may have made the point far better.
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5 Jul
9:02pm, 5 Jul 2024
24,989 posts
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larkim
The point about it being undemocratic is not lost on me. But these are not crony appointments, they are intended to ensure delivery. And our constitution allows for appointments to the Lords to get expertise in place. Until the HoL is reformed, this is one part of how things get done. |
5 Jul
9:07pm, 5 Jul 2024
22,636 posts
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rf_fozzy
Re: vallance, wasn't he already in the lords? As for unelected ministers, technically JDA is maybe correct, but it's hardly unprecedented in UK democracy. I'm old enough to remember an emergency ennoblement of a former PM to plug a massive hole as foriegn sec in a cabinet full of headbangers. And in these cases, they are all appointed for their expertise in their specialist areas. In one case, they've already had direct expertise of directing public policy. |
5 Jul
9:13pm, 5 Jul 2024
32,711 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I doubt any of them will perform as well as Culture Minister Nadine Dorries.
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5 Jul
9:14pm, 5 Jul 2024
5,719 posts
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paulcook
That's the point though, there were also people calling out Cameron being unelected FS last November. Though at least larkim is also consistent in not minding it then nor now. |
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5 Jul
9:16pm, 5 Jul 2024
32,712 posts
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Johnny Blaze
The USA literally has an administration full of appointees. Like ex generals as Defence Secretaries. Looks like boring Red Tory Starmer is looking to do things differently. |
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5 Jul
9:18pm, 5 Jul 2024
32,713 posts
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Johnny Blaze
And yes, numerous ministers have been members of the unelected House of Lords including our ex Foreign Secretary...
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