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Nov 2019
2:52pm, 15 Nov 2019
23,016 posts
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fetcheveryone
So long as they're having fun, that's the main thing 
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Nov 2019
2:53pm, 15 Nov 2019
22,898 posts
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Johnny Blaze
1000 likes...
Labour have been this way before - with Michael Foot in 1983. That didn't end well, and it took Labour, Blair and his 3rd way 18 years to make themselves electable again.
Like it or not the UK, and particularly England, and particularly the huge population in the south east, have become wedded to the idea of being a capital-owning, private property owning, society, and they will naturally be resistant to anyone who wants carte blanche to help themselves to the contents of their pockets. There are socialists in the UK but not enough of them to ever win the election outright.
A social democratic-leaning Labour party has a much better chance of being elected than an outright socialist party. Being principled is all well and good but without power none of your programmes stand a chance. History shows that, although who knows what will happen in the future. A country which is significantly impoverished by Brexit could swing leftwards, although my guess is that things will get worse before they get better.
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Nov 2019
2:53pm, 15 Nov 2019
22,899 posts
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Johnny Blaze
A professor of European Law gave a talk in Stratford recently - this is a man who has actually read ALL of the withdrawal agreements and political declarations thus far drafted. His view is that Johnson's "deal", and particularly new political declaration element, shows quite clearly the direction of travel for Johnson, post-Brexit. The dismantling of workers' rights and protections; the dismantling of environmental protections - to make us "more competitive and productive". That's what's coming. Any working class person who votes for this has only themselves to blame for what happens next.
he also said that Johnson's deal will be spectacularly difficult to implement in NI and will give a major hit to businesses in NI. It's all coming, and soon.
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Nov 2019
2:58pm, 15 Nov 2019
33,244 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Or not, if we can prevent a Tory majority, force a 2nd ref and scrape a 51:49 Remain vote in it. Keep the faith JB! :_) G
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Nov 2019
2:58pm, 15 Nov 2019
33,245 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Oh, I lost my smile
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Nov 2019
3:03pm, 15 Nov 2019
9,256 posts
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rf_fozzy
I actually think the Broadband announcement is quite clever. And I suspect quite popular.
Brings the internet connectivity issue front and centre. And links it with "left behind" areas and how we need investment in those areas.
The Lib Dems investment in wind/tidal energy is also good. (As is the Green one)
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Nov 2019
3:07pm, 15 Nov 2019
9,257 posts
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rf_fozzy
JB. That's all Brexit has ever been about.
"more competitive" = more aligned with US style practises, standards, rights and obligations.
Just remember that Brexit one of the few examples where people have voted to lose hard won rights.
And this is even before we see what the "end state" is like. We are already losing the right to work and live freely across the EU.
Not sure how the leave voting (self-professed) libertarians on this thread can square that particular conundrum. Brexit means we are less free as citizens of the UK.
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Nov 2019
3:07pm, 15 Nov 2019
22,900 posts
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Johnny Blaze
That is my hope. I would like to think a hung Parliament will force even that jerk Johnson into accepting that the only way out is a 2nd referendum.
There is a clear choice now - the negotiated deal (such as it is) vs Remain. It will be interesting to see what Corbyn would do - assuming he is still around, which I rather doubt he will be, unless Labour somehow become the largest party in a coalition. But who knows. I think any hung Parliament with Tories as the biggest party will throw up a lot of questions but overall I think it's the most likely outcome short of a Tory majority.
But who knows. I think the picture is too complicated to be certain of anything.
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Nov 2019
3:42pm, 15 Nov 2019
33,247 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Back to another Tory minority gov, with Labour slightly increasing their seats, where does that leave us? Back where we were a few months ago? Johnson still trying to ram home his deal? I don't think Corbyn will leave (I increased Labour seats. I kept Tories out.) but even if he did, there's not going to be yet another GE, is there? G
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Nov 2019
3:53pm, 15 Nov 2019
24,651 posts
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Wriggling Snake
Given Corbyn's backroom staff are controlling the Labour Party, Corbyn isn't going anywhere unless there is a huge collapse (that is possible), even then there will be a like for like replacement. They are in trouble.
Incidentally, I do not understand the free broadband either, i get the idea in the modern world it is just about a necessity, however
1 it will not be free, buying back BT will cost money that will be paid for in tax or borrowing
Secondly it could well be popular in places, mainly places where you have no broadband or it is slow. You would need to map that against the general voting intention of that area, there could be traction, but I don't see that is a given.
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