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Nov 2019
10:39am, 15 Nov 2019
2,429 posts
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TomahawkMike
Agree Happygrr. Stop brexit first
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Nov 2019
10:51am, 15 Nov 2019
24,648 posts
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Wriggling Snake
Is stop Brexit first a bigger thing than independence in Scotland. If so the LDs will win the biggest vote/number of seats, in Scotland, right?
I would have thought the best way to halt Brexit was to vote SNP, and they will have a blocking vote in Westminster. So that is Sturgeon's tactic, block Brexit, and then go look, big SNP vote, independence please, seems fair enough, it is politics after all.
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Nov 2019
10:51am, 15 Nov 2019
1,574 posts
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Surelynot
People in Scotland are not special. We're just the same as Fins, Norwegians, Jamaicans, Congolese, Irish, French, Australian, Swedish etc. All independent countries.
I also have family in England. I work in Yorkshire and Scotland.
Independence is the norm everywhere in the world. I'd like to be like everyone else. A small, independent European state with no pretensions of being a global power, who can focus on the real and specific challenges we have as a country. For me, it's really difficult to do that when we have a so-called partnership of equals where your partner has 90% or thereabouts of the vote.
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Nov 2019
11:03am, 15 Nov 2019
33,234 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
WS, no, I think you've misunderstood my point - you can vote LD or SNP in Scotland (as long as it's not Tory!) and from a seat point of view you are opposing Brexit.
But leaders e.g. Sturgeon, could support parties in England like Labour rather than causing pain and confusion and embarrassment over our "local" ScotInd issue, when the national (UK) GE really cares more about (quite rightly) Brexit.
SNP should support Lib Dems, Greens or even Labour in getting votes that stop Brexit. If they genuinely want Brexit stopped. My fear is they think they're being clever and think that UK leaving EU will help to get ScotInd, and I don't think it will. And at an enormous pain to England / rest of UK as well as Scotland UK leaves EU.
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Nov 2019
11:24am, 15 Nov 2019
1,575 posts
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Surelynot
Voting Labour is not a vote to stop Brexit. Their position is to renegotiate the deal and then have another referendum. So no guarantee.
The SNP has been clear it will not support a Tory government. It has also been clear that it would support a Labour government in exchange for support for an independence referendum.
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Nov 2019
11:30am, 15 Nov 2019
6,683 posts
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paul the builder
The UK is a pretty weird concept altogether when you think about. Is it one country or four? Put yourself in the shoes of someone from *anywhere* else in the world. I'd be thinking, "why do they think they are so special to have that situation?".
Let's decide - to be completely one, or completely four. And everything that the decision entails. No more 'special' circumstances.
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Nov 2019
11:47am, 15 Nov 2019
33,235 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I tried to explain it once to a US Army squaddie lad in Germany. He would refer to me as "G, that Scottish, British mother*cker". Affectionately, of course.
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Nov 2019
11:51am, 15 Nov 2019
33,236 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
In England (correct me England friends) I think Labour being "associated" with SNP could lose it votes. And Labour explicitly supporting Scottish Ind referendum almost certainly would. Appearing to "dither" over if and when they would support it also doesn't make them look good.
I get that Labour doesn't guarantee end to Brexit. But only Lib Dems, Green and Plaid Cymru do and they can't get a majority. Any reduction in Labour vote in England and Wales if it lets in a Tory, *increases* chance of the current, hard Brexit (or even no deal Brexit).
So I think harming Labour is a bad thing for Remainers. Unfortunately the biggest harm to the Labour vote at the moment is Labour/Corbyn!  G
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Nov 2019
11:55am, 15 Nov 2019
24,649 posts
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Wriggling Snake
Do the LDs have a nation (UK) wide policy on Scotlands independence? I have no idea, the LD crap coming through my letter box says, in order, don't vote Tory, don't vote labour, we work locally, don't shout the local hospital (it needs shutting, the quality of care is better elsewhere, and will improve elsewhere if resources are diverted), hardly a word of what they do nationally.
It get the impression they may trumpet other things in other constituencies.
My point was, if you want independence, ALWAYS vote SNP, because if you don't momentum is lost, lots of votes are a bargaining chip that the SNP can use in anyway it likes.
Imagine a proper border (as there could have to be as there could have to be in the case of NI) between Wales and England, England and Scotland as well as NI and the republic, that would be immensely efficient.
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Nov 2019
11:57am, 15 Nov 2019
6,901 posts
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Too Much Water
Employment opportunities for construction and policing of the border
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