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Nov 2019
2:02pm, 15 Nov 2019
22,896 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I would prefer the union to continue but I do feel that the people who are most jeopardising it these days are those who are the most ardent flagwavers on the islands - English nationalists. Generally speaking I am against nationalism in all its forms but there are some forms which are more benign than others - you have Nazis at one end and more rational nationalists at the other. But I still think nationalism is a tiger that many people think can be ridden successfully and harmlessly - until the day it isn't, when it bites those who thought they could control it. Once it is unleashed it is a very difficult beast to control. Nationalism tends to be the creed of populists, demagogues and racists - see Farage and Trump as good examples. Johnson is a nationalist but even that is secondary to his primary drive - the greater elevation of B Johnson.
Personally I am happy to pool sovereignty for the greater good, as in the EU, and in terms of togetherness I think the UK will be stronger as a whole than broken up into bits. But I can see why scots would now think they have had enough of the planks in Westminster and the nasty shithead Little Englanders who are happy to see the entire country crash out of the EU and go into decline and disintegration - because leave means leave, willofthepeople and all that.
I am finding it utterly depressing that every day this campaign reveals how unprincipled and unscrupulous Johnson and the Tories are yet they are still ahead in the polls because Corbyn and Brexit. Working class people who vote Tory will reap what they sow - another 5 years of getting shafted.
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Nov 2019
2:02pm, 15 Nov 2019
2,396 posts
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J2R
Don't really know why Labour have gone for this broadband policy, to be honest. I don't think it's an area where they're likely to win that many votes, to compensate for the negative press they're going to get about 1970s nationalisation, etc. There are far better targets to consider and push to the front, public transport being the most obvious one.
Unfortunately their idiotic Brexit policy has made them once again vulnerable to the old 'magic money tree' accusation. Had they come out unambiguously in favour of remaining in the EU, then whenever the Tories attacked them over spending plans they could simply point out that the Tories's core policy is going to reduce the economy by a minimum of 6%, according to the Government's own figures. But they're still talking about their own, kinder, more caring Brexit damage to the economy instead.
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Nov 2019
2:04pm, 15 Nov 2019
2,397 posts
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J2R
JB, agreed! The trouble is, I don't even think people will learn their lesson, which would be the only positive thing I could think of from the whole debacle.
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Nov 2019
2:12pm, 15 Nov 2019
22,897 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I don't understand the broadband one either. I would have thought there were much more pressing things to deal with, and nationalising private companies will only hand ammunition to the Tories.
I am finding the efforts of the parties to outbid each other in spending plans pretty depressing on the whole. They are making promises which they must know have very little chance of being achieved. The next 5 years will be about managing the impact of Brexit, and spending plans will need to be tailored accordingly - but of course they won't say that, until next year. On current form i think we are going out and it is going to be a long and painful process. I might be being pessimistic but I prefer to think I am being realistic.
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Nov 2019
2:31pm, 15 Nov 2019
6,902 posts
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Too Much Water
I reckon broadband policy is so that Corbyn and McDonnell can monitor internet traffic, something that their Stalinist / Maoist heroes would have welcomed.
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Nov 2019
2:33pm, 15 Nov 2019
11,428 posts
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Cerrertonia
That's right, TMW. I expect Corbyn is on his allotment right now plotting how to starve millions of people to death.
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Nov 2019
2:38pm, 15 Nov 2019
2,398 posts
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J2R
Sadly, JB, I think you are being realistic. The in-fighting between Labour and LibDems has quashed the last hope I had of avoiding a disastrous Brexit, now made far worse by the prospect of 5 years of far right wing government as well. It was always going to be an uphill struggle against a movement which has discovered it can lie, openly and repeatedly, without any apparent political cost. Lies can always be made a lot more appealing than the truth. Until the tide turns (if it ever does), things are only going to get worse. Maybe if Trump does in fact get impeached successfully, things will start to swing back. But until that happens, Johnson and co can simply look across the ocean, see how Trump behaves without losing too much support, and do the same thing here.
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Nov 2019
2:41pm, 15 Nov 2019
23,014 posts
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fetcheveryone
Macca and HappyG - in fairness to Stander, I don't think that's him.
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Nov 2019
2:46pm, 15 Nov 2019
1,387 posts
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Weean
A lot of Labour's more recent announcements I don't actually disagree with, but aren't really important to me, and I strongly suspect that's true of most of the country. It's really frustrating when you see what utter fuckwits they're up against that they mange to be even more fuckwitted and will certainly fail to win this election, and quite probably deliver a majority to Boris et al.
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Nov 2019
2:50pm, 15 Nov 2019
33,243 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Ah, really? Weird, so who is spamming / trolling our lovely thread / your lovely site?!  G
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