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EU Referendum

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Badger Dec 2015 6:00pm, 10 Dec 2015 6,264 posts	Quote Pin Badger In. Among other things: we're going to end up making things to the EU specs anyway and getting CE marks for them, just as we do the equivalent for the USA to sell there. Do you not want to have any say in that? If we want to remain in the single market (and I think that we do, rather than having to build a complete set of new trade agreements, likely to include import duties), we'd need to fall back to EFTA membership. At that point, we'd have certain benefits from single market membership. We would also have better defined sovereignty than we do now, but at the cost of entirely losing our influence on EU decision making. And we'd still be paying for EFTA membership. This is potentially very destructive for UK science, both academic and industrial, too. EU research grants, where if the Swiss experience is anything to go by scientistsforeu.uk then we'll at best be paying more to get less, with no part in decision making, or even be excluded entirely. I don't think the EU is an unalloyed good (nor big pharma for that matter). Us leaving isn't going to make things better for us, or the rest of the EU.
Yorkshire Pie Dec 2015 7:46pm, 10 Dec 2015 12,814 posts	Quote Pin Yorkshire Pie In. What happens in Europe affects us and we're better off in to have a say in it than outside and having to comply with rules we have no input into if we want to sell into Europe or travel through it. From a professional point of view a lot of what I do is European law so I'd like to keep practising it. In reality I'll be fine because we'd need replacement UK rules anyway, and the EU stuff will apply to us in practice whether we're in or out because it has been drafted with extraterritorial effect to catch you if you trade with Europe. Which goes back to the fact that if we're in if we have a say. And on a personal level my parents are/were economic migrants, benefit tourists and spent months sponging off a foreign healthcare system. But they were Brits in Spain so according to the press that's OK, as long as it never works the other way round and I'm not going to mention the fact that the EU made Spain change its discriminatory inheritance tax laws...
Watford Wobble Dec 2015 8:13pm, 10 Dec 2015 5,086 posts	Quote Pin Watford Wobble 100% out. There is still national legislation in place to prevent free trade. I have to deal with this daily. It hasn't worked nor will it.
Snake Doctor Dec 2015 8:46pm, 10 Dec 2015 3,096 posts	Quote Pin Snake Doctor 100%
Snake Doctor Dec 2015 8:48pm, 10 Dec 2015 3,097 posts	Quote Pin Snake Doctor Out. I've had enough of people from other countries dictating what I can and can't do who have no interest in what is good for Britain but what is good for them.
Shadowless Formless Legs Dec 2015 9:01pm, 10 Dec 2015 335 posts	Quote Pin Shadowless Formless Legs I'm currently undecided. I was swayed towards 'out' by the German handling of the Greek crises a) because it was suddenly so clear that Germany are actually in charge of Europe b) because of schauble attempting to sieze 50 billion euros from Greece into an 'independent' fund which is wholly owned by a German back that he chairshttp://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/europe/55028/german_minister_proposes_independent_fund_he_chairs_to_take_control_of_50bn_greek_assets#.VmnlXMunzqA and c) because UK money was used to bailout greece despite us not being part of the euro. The greece crisis is not yet resolved (only delayed) and when it returns we would be better off keeping UK tax payers money safely out of reach of grabbing German hands. On the other hand before we can really decide whether to leave it needs to be clear what approach to trading with Europe is actually being proposed as the alternative. Are we going down the EEA, EFTA or FTA route? This is an issue that needs to be clarified before anyone can see what stands to be gained and lost from an EU exit.
Shadowless Formless Legs Dec 2015 9:02pm, 10 Dec 2015 336 posts	Quote Pin Shadowless Formless Legs maltatoday.com.mt Sorry previous link was broken!
DeeGee Dec 2015 10:39pm, 10 Dec 2015 16,840 posts	Quote Pin DeeGee Just to remind those folk who like to bring Switzerland to the table that Switzerland is a member of Schengen. If I was offered out of the EU, but with no international borders so we can be like Switzerland, I might rethink my view.
Girlie Dec 2015 10:57pm, 10 Dec 2015 10,586 posts	Quote Pin Girlie I apologise for merely checking a list of EU countries before daring to offer an
Badger Dec 2015 11:17pm, 10 Dec 2015 6,268 posts	Quote Pin Badger Having to wave your passport at the airport is not really one of the major issues, to my mind. Freedom of movement, freedom of trade, participating in decision making are much more important. Switzerland is not part of the EU, but it is part of EFTA, and, as I mentioned above, is being penalised in various ways for backing out of free movement for Croatian citizens. SFL is absolutely right about needing to know what the alternative is, and what the consequences will actually be.