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EU Referendum

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Girlie Dec 2015 11:37pm, 10 Dec 2015 10,587 posts	0 Girlie Have they said when this referendum will be held?
Dvorak Dec 2015 11:45pm, 10 Dec 2015 11,080 posts	0 Dvorak In. We can look two ways, Europe or America. America is fucked and will probably be more fucked shortly. I like Europe and view myself as a European. I also look at who is for out, and if the first point didn't persuade me, the second would.
Badger Dec 2015 11:51pm, 10 Dec 2015 6,269 posts	0 Badger Girlie: no, only that it won't be later than the end of 2017.
Shadowless Formless Legs Dec 2015 8:28am, 11 Dec 2015 337 posts	0 Shadowless Formless Legs It's strange that most people are agreed that having a voice in Europe is one of the important things that we stand to lose of we leave, but as a nation have selected more MPs from UKIP than any other party to be that voice. If you look at the list of Euro MP's that we have selected, it such a mixture of UKIP, Tory, Labour, Independents, Green & Sinn Fein that it's difficult to see how they could possibly agree anything amongst themselves and yet we wonder why we are not getting the things that we want from Europe.
simbil Dec 2015 9:19am, 11 Dec 2015 7,059 posts	0 simbil Very true SFL, the UK has also been inept with it's appointments and dealings with the EU bodies in general. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would believe we have done as bad a job as possible in order to moan how bad it is and then leave. But really, we have often just left things too late believing that nobody in their right minds would go through with obviously flawed policy, and then it goes through without our opposition! We should be and could be more influential, the Germans and Dutch and to a lesser extent some of the Eastern European countries are on more or less the same page as us. It's hard to see what we can do in European parliament as it stands though with a rag-tag bunch of protest vote EMPs.
TRO Saracen Dec 2015 12:52pm, 15 Dec 2015 11,905 posts	0 TRO Saracen As the football commentator once said (when Micheal Thomas burst through against Liverpool to win the title - 1989?) 'It's up for grabs now!' theguardian.com
DeeGee Dec 2015 3:32pm, 15 Dec 2015 16,849 posts	0 DeeGee I still don't understand how this has become all about migration? I thought the big bugbear was the undemocratic nature of the German-centric oligarchy that unjustly steal our money to prop up French winegrowers. Turns out, if that poll is to be believed, it's about migration. So it's good that the only concessions we're asking for is that the minority of eastern Europeans who come here to work our wage-deflated economy that our own government wants us to live in aren't entitled to the same in-work benefits as our own legal slaves. Because, frankly, you be a fool to transport yourself across a continent to live in high-costs Britain and claim our less than generous unemployment benefits.
Spleen Dec 2015 3:48pm, 15 Dec 2015 1,302 posts	0 Spleen Shadowless: Perhaps we should only elect Europhile MPs who will happily agree any sacrifice to the European ideal that the EU asks of us, in order to present a united voice that the commissioners will "listen to"? When people say "We need our voice to be heard by the EU" what they mean is "We must say yes sir, yes sir, 12 billion bags full sir" because that's the only language they hear. Most of us don't want anything from Europe, that is the point. We do not want handouts or subsidies or bailouts, or to take part in daft sociopolitical experiments like the single currency. The only thing we ever wanted was to be allowed to trade freely. I am ambivalent about the referendum, incidentally, although that post might make me sound like a Kipper. Whether we pay tribute to Brussels or to London makes little difference in the end.
Badger Dec 2015 4:00pm, 15 Dec 2015 6,334 posts	0 Badger SFL, I suspect the people who have a strong enough view on it to comment on this thread in the first place have also been getting out and voting for MEPs ,whether it's for UKIP or more mainstream parties. The trouble is that our turnout is so pathetically low ukpolitical.info that UKIP are disproportionately represented, because their supporters are encouraged to vote to undermine the EU from within, whereas other parties' supporters just assume everything will be OK, business as usual, no real influence anyway. I suppose "voting in all elections should be the act of every responsible citizen" is another argument, but it's my view. (There's a side conversation about deliberately spoiled ballot papers, too). Here's something where the UK were heavily influential in changing policy: hse.gov.uk This was an, initially, poorly thought out policy intended to reduce worker exposure to high magnetic fields, which would have had the side effect of crippling MRI research in Europe. There are some big hitters in both industry and research in Europe, and the legislation was eventually modified permanently to permit research work to continue. UK non-governmental bodies and the HSE played a significant role in this. Significant mistake in the first place by the EU, but it got fixed and we were not without influence.
Shadowless Formless Legs Dec 2015 11:59am, 17 Dec 2015 366 posts	0 Shadowless Formless Legs Spleen. If you had to choose someone to attend your pay review at work on your behalf, would you pick the guy in the office who was most negative about the company and constantly spoke openly about leaving? I wouldn't. I wouldn't send a 'yes man' either - that's just the opposite extreme. Badger. If we were outside of Europe and the policy had gone ahead then arguably the 'big hitters in both industry and research' could have moved to Britain. Is there a need for us to directly influence what happens in Europe or would we be better creating a more attractive environment for this type of industry & research at home?