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Dec 2015
7:59pm, 17 Dec 2015
7,081 posts
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simbil
Any of the 'out' voters convinced by Cameron's efforts?
Some how I don't think he is as good a poker player as the Greeks when it comes to 11th hour brinkmanship,
Seems the best outcome would be agreement on most of his demands apart from benefits which will no doubt be his sacrificial lamb to secure the other parts of the deal.
The problem is, that will be seen as a failure by eurosceptics and probably neither here or there for euro friendlies.
To me it seems like the last sorry negotiation with a group he and his predecessors have failed to understand, engage with and influence,
He's pulling an all nighter though apparently, so we'll see what has happened in the morning 
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Dec 2015
9:12am, 18 Dec 2015
5,482 posts
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Too Much Water
No.
Concessions may be got but will be watered down over time - Merkel does not want to open up Pandora's box.
Still out 100%
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Dec 2015
9:35am, 18 Dec 2015
6,355 posts
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Badger
TMW, your first comment to me would be a bit more persuasive if the "cyber-Nats" had actually won the referendum. Maybe more people thought the detailed economic arguments mattered than you realise.
As to your second comment to me, the most charitable interpretation is that you think it's hilariously funny to call people Nazis, right next door to it being a serious comparison which you call a joke the moment you get called on it.
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Dec 2015
9:41am, 18 Dec 2015
16,854 posts
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DeeGee
I was interested in Rees-Mogg's suggestion yesterday that we need to get out of the EU so as to remove restrictions on people from outside the EU to migrate here.
So, the only way you're actually going to get any kind of limits on migration is to be part of the EU, then?
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Dec 2015
9:44am, 18 Dec 2015
8,331 posts
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Chrisull
Rees Mogg is barking isn't he? At least he's ditched his Gestapo "look" dress sense wise to replace it with 1950s businessmen. A genuinely creepy nasty piece of work, with no coherent views other than reactionary defences of privilege and "tradition".
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Dec 2015
9:48am, 18 Dec 2015
16,855 posts
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DeeGee
A perfect fit in the modern Conservative party.
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Dec 2015
10:03am, 18 Dec 2015
370 posts
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Shadowless Formless Legs
I wasn't able to bring myself to watch Question Time yesterday. After seeing that they had managed to assemble a panel where Piers Morgan looked like the nice guy, I realised it was time to switch off.
I presume the immigration argument was that we need to have the freedom to choose to accept the people with the most suitable skills for the economy regardless of whether they are from the EU or not. It seems like a fairly reasonable point to me.
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Dec 2015
10:57am, 18 Dec 2015
5,483 posts
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Too Much Water
Why does a Chinese masters graduate get less precedence over an unskilled labourer with no qualifications / prospects / ability to generate and spend money?
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Dec 2015
11:01am, 18 Dec 2015
5,484 posts
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Too Much Water
Regarding the Scottish referendum it's likely to be a similarly close result whichever way England votes.
Badger I didn't call you a nazi, nor anyone else. Was merely pointing out that much of Europe is under Germany's yoke due to the power Merkel yields. There is some irony in that statement given the ECSB (believe this was the original acronym) was designed to prevent Germany from invading Europe again! Anyway take what I said how you want to.
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Dec 2015
11:23am, 18 Dec 2015
6,356 posts
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Badger
Thing is, when you say that, it's something we could actually debate. What you said before drew a direct analogy between the EU and Nazi Germany, and you can't really complain when it gets taken that way. Anyway, we should probably not go round on this more (feel free to respond to that, I won't say any more).
It'd be very close if the vote was tomorrow. Could easily be another two years till it happens, and there are a lot of people whose positions are not as firmly held as mine or yours who could go either way. Might be much clearer what's going to happen when it finally ticks round. Interesting times.
It's not that difficult to bring Chinese masters graduates in to posts here; my Institute has many Chinese students, postdocs, couple of university fellows (silly name, but basically means on track for group leader/lecturer post but not there yet). More paperwork to be done, sure, but that's to make sure the qualifications are authentic, really. Current population of my office: one EU citizen (me), two naturalized British citizens (one US, one Indian by birth), one Chinese PhD student. Hiring people with top-level specialised skills from outside the EU is perfectly doable.
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