EU Referendum

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simbil Dec 2015 12:22pm, 10 Dec 2015 7,053 posts	0 simbil Are you in or out - why and is there anything much that would change your mind?
simbil Dec 2015 12:27pm, 10 Dec 2015 7,054 posts	0 simbil I'm marginally 'in'. I reckon there is economic value now and more in the future. The EU seems broken in many ways but I think we should stay in and influence it so it becomes more sensible rather than leaving it to take our neighbours and one of our most important customer bases who knows where. I'd change to 'out' if the EU looks like it is keen on too much more expansion, particularly if it looked like Turkey could be admitted.
DeeGee Dec 2015 12:54pm, 10 Dec 2015 16,838 posts	0 DeeGee I am in for any number of reasons, but mainly because if our major export market are making rules, they ain't going to make them to the benefit of countries outside their bloc. I'm most annoyed that part of the distrust that people have of "Brussels" is because they don't see the benefits of membership, and the reason they don't see the benefits of membership is because our successive governments have refused to allow us to sign up to the stuff that most people would recognise as useful. If folk had been travelling out to their holidays without needing a passport since it became permitted, and they were told that they'd suddenly need a passport to go on holiday, I think a surprising number of undecided voters might decide that that's the dealbreaker. But we've been denied that right.
ChrisHB Dec 2015 1:04pm, 10 Dec 2015 11,982 posts	0 ChrisHB Marginally "in". I fancy it does more good in stopping wars than it does harm in making weird regulations and creating conditions where corruption flourishes. Given that e.g. the USA have said they would treat us as not a favoured trading partner if we left and would have no particular interest in a small country across the Atlantic, it's not just a choice between the EU and independence; leaving would have unwanted consequences in the rest of our relationships with the world. I would sooner leave NATO.
Binks book, an excellent Xmas gift Dec 2015 1:24pm, 10 Dec 2015 6,878 posts	0 Binks book, an excellent Xmas gift I'm "out" by a long way. I believe in free trade. If I want to trade with a French person or a Russian or a Turk I should not have to ask for the permission of my head of state and their head of state or the head of a super state representing many of them for the terms of this trade. It should just be me and them. The more people you try to represent with a top down trade "deal" the less efficient they are. I imagine in the short term the UK might lose out as it becomes harder to trade with the remaining EU cartel (and similar ones in North America). Hopefully it will shake it around enough such that many of these barriers are removed. It's not really any specific rule or law that makes me want to leave. It's the general principle that I don't think one guy (or small team) can represent me and 60 million other people and then do worthwhile deals with other guys representing tens of millions of people too. Let alone letting one group of people represent me and 500 million others.
Surrey Phil Dec 2015 1:32pm, 10 Dec 2015 1,151 posts	0 Surrey Phil I used to be in but not any more, and getting more that way inclined every day.
TRO Saracen Dec 2015 1:36pm, 10 Dec 2015 11,885 posts	0 TRO Saracen Really 50:50 on this one. Neither side has made a compelling case to me yet (although to be fair I have not sought out the sort of facts that would). Things that will impact that decision: Trade. The ins always go on about EU trade, but the truth is Europe is not a long term growth area: are we better positioned to exploit the areas that are as a separate trading entity or part of a homogenous bloc. Cameron's negotiations. Whilst not groundshaking in themselves, the EU showing it can accommodate at least some of the concerns of a member will give some comfort that we are not on an unstoppable journey to being railroaded somewhere where we really do not want to be, and actually have the influence that the 'ins' say we need to be in to exercise. The accounts. As someone who works in financial control and governance, it really fucking bothers me that this organisation has 'the payments underlying the accounts for the year ended 31 December XXXX are materially affected by error' in its auditors report. Every year. So effectively they have no idea where billions are going and what they are being spent on. Even FIFA got its accounts signed off, so fuck knows what horrors are lurking to cause this. When you think of the cuts in national budgets over the last few years, and yet the EU is still watercannoning our hard earned about without any proper financial control or restraint. With more nations as net beneficiaries than contributors, is there a real will to change this. If its still 50:50, then this may swing me to out.
angelrose Dec 2015 2:04pm, 10 Dec 2015 14,078 posts	0 angelrose I voted to join the Common Market, not the United States of Europe.
Doctor K Dec 2015 2:34pm, 10 Dec 2015 3,696 posts	0 Doctor K Out, on democratic grounds.
Uyuni Dec 2015 2:45pm, 10 Dec 2015 203 posts	0 Uyuni 100% in - if Rupert Murdoch and the The Daily Mail agree that something is terrible, I'm all for it