EU Referendum - In or Out? Vote here
70 watchers
Oct 2016
11:30pm, 27 Oct 2016
2,367 posts
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mr d
Nice thought, but our politicians struggle to listen to the people who put a cross in the box, even when it's for them.
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Oct 2016
11:35pm, 27 Oct 2016
22,948 posts
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SPR
Yes but if spoilt ballots 'won' a general election, it would be picked up by the media even if politicians wanted to ignore it.
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Oct 2016
11:50pm, 27 Oct 2016
2,368 posts
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mr d
Only is you properly spoli it http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32658907/election-2015-mp-thanks-voter-for-penis-ballot-paper-mark.
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Oct 2016
11:51pm, 27 Oct 2016
2,369 posts
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mr d
*spoil
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Oct 2016
7:48am, 28 Oct 2016
13,439 posts
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Wriggling Snake
I have one problem with PR. You lose the local representation your MP can give you.
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Oct 2016
8:31am, 28 Oct 2016
1,766 posts
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Fellrunning
I really don't think PR would work here. Politics is just too tribal in the UK. In the counties where it works well it relies on dialogue between essentially centrist parties. In Finland for example government simply couldn't operate without it. Alexander Stubb the PM in the previous conservative administration is now finance minister in the current centre left coalition. You simply wouldn't find that here. Imagine George Osborne as chancellor in a Lib Dem/Labour/SNP coalition. Not gonna happen is it....
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Oct 2016
8:43am, 28 Oct 2016
2,370 posts
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mr d
I agree FR, but we have had MPs who haven't represented us, and in some constituencies they just don't. That example also could show that we need different politicians and parties. PR isn't perfect and I am sure someone will cite Italy as an example where it doesn't work. Ironically Labour made the Scottish parliament partially PR to keep the SNP out. They also introduced AV for the London Mayoral election. |
Oct 2016
9:33am, 28 Oct 2016
7,359 posts
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Binks
Listened to an interesting book called something like "The Myth of the Rational Voter". Was of the view that we should vote selfishly rather than "for the greater good". The reason being that we have lots of information and incentives to do well for ourselves. Whether we are rich/poor, own a business, unemployed, male/female, gay, single, parents, old or whatever we can usually pick which party will best serve us. And with selfish interests being aggregated the result is some fairly accurate "average" of sentiment, so extreme views get aggregated out. When we vote for what we think is the greater good it poses two problems. Firstly we are easier swayed by bias on things that don't directly affect us. For example a business owner with foreign workers and customers might be very sympathetic to immigration as curbing foreign entry affects his business and his livelyhood. He has an incentive to think about it more and vote according to whatever he decides is best. Someone who is not directly affected can be easier swayed into the "foreigns are terking er jerbs" narrative, as they have no real reference point to say otherwise. Politicians operate to exploit this. Then they can move the "average of all sentiment" towards one of the extremes. Second is the information searching in general. There is only so much stuff I am willing to research. It's hard enough to decide what I want for dinner later let alone for the healthcare or employment of a nation. Therefore even without bias I don't have a huge incentive to look into it much and will take the easiest option that may satisfy my gut feelings. And so the recommendation was to vote selfishly. Anyhoo I agree (should I ever vote  ) but thought it was interesting nonetheless
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Oct 2016
9:33am, 28 Oct 2016
10,128 posts
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Chrisull
I am the son of Eastern European (albeit ethnic German)refugee, so privilege is relative. So yes my visceral dislike of the right and intolerance of fucking bigots is going to be hard weed out. I am one of the enemy to many in this country. A fifth columnist. And I don't go to the pub at all, so happens my mother in law and sister in law and families were down and you can't fit a gathering of 11 in a lounge... We essentially have two centrist parties here, albeit with one going through a spasm with Corbyn. In Germany Merkel was/is in government with the Social Democrats, and that was considered unthinkable before hand. In Spain Rajoy will probably end up ruling the country with the socialists, and given they were historically descended from sides pretty much on the opposite sides of a civil war..... I think PR can work here. It's just outside the realms of our experience. |
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Oct 2016
9:41am, 28 Oct 2016
10,129 posts
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Chrisull
And my privileged comment was a dig at libertarianism which tends to be the preserve of white, young, relatively affluent (although not always) men: prri.org and quora.com |
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