Dear Scottish Fetchies

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daviec Feb 2014 11:22am, 17 Feb 2014 3,716 posts	0 daviec Boab - tbf these could all be sorted out but Westminster refuse to negotiate in advance. Wouldn't it be much easier if we knew what we were saying yes or no to? But on all of those issues you've stated there is indeed a wish-list, and there's also a clear indication of what we'll get if we say no. Welfare state - more cuts to those most in need. This is the tiniest fraction of what is needed to reduce a ridiculous deficit, but the populist politics used by the government and the media to vilify that group of people is going to continue. We've only seen 10% of the cuts Osborne has put forward. There's much, much more to come. Westminster blocked the Scottish government from mitigating the bedroom tax in Scotland. Even if we had been allowed to do so, at some point the cuts are going to be too great for the Scottish government to do anything about. Immigration - Tories are chasing the votes leaking to the UKIP on immigration as well as eurpoe. Immigrants are already another vilified portion of society. It's never clear if people mean legal or illegal immigrants when they talk about them. And public perception is again skewed by the press/government. It is covered in the 'white paper' though. I'm not sure what else they can do apart from say what they'd like to do. Defence - as above we currently pay £3 billion a year towards UK defence, of which £1.5 billion is actually spent in Scotland. We have no sea defence as it's based in Portsmouth, we've lost several RAF bases, and our army regiments are being reduced. Cuts to UK defence will continue, and let's face it, it's not defence really is it, given the aggressive nature of our foreign policy. The UK also want to spend £100 billion on a trident replacement. I really and truly do not see the point. Maybe decades ago in the height of the cold war, but what use is a nuclear submarine now? And at what cost? Health - already devolved. We have managed to avoid the creeping privatisation of the NHS in Scotland because we have that control. As the cuts continue though then eventually we're going to have to face those same choices. I cannot see how a health service run for profit can be the correct way to do things. Tax - the UK system of tax breaks for the rich, and avoidance of trillions of pounds of corporation tax can surely be bettered easily. Again it's in the white paper. I agree it's a wish list, but at the end of the day the SNP can only do that. The rest of it is up to the first Scottish independent government, which will be elected in 2016. Agreed we don't always get what we wish for, but we've a chance at that if we have our own government. The answers are definitely there, it's just we have a media/government black out on the important information. Their whole campaign is based around making everything seem uncertain. If you want economic figures with no spin, can I suggest the GERS report. It's the UK government figures for the Scottish economy. It's dry though. Ivan McKee of Business for Scotland has a good breakdown of the key facts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W8cKHcZn60 Business for Scotland are very good, it's straight up pro independence, but their arguments are solid. businessforscotland.co.uk Just so you can see it's not up to the SNP to play the full game, I like the Scottish Greens vision for independence. scottishgreens.org.uk And I think with the polls now almost leveling at 50/50 you'll begin to see a bit less bias in the media as they try to avoid offending half of their readership, and the BBC's argument that it's not officially the referendum lead up until 6 months to go and so they have no need to avoid bias, will also be under scrutiny. We'll begin to see more reasoned debate and information. In that vein here's the pro-union herald interviewing a non-SNP business man who does not see a risk to going independent. heraldscotland.com
santababy Feb 2014 1:24pm, 17 Feb 2014 70,124 posts	0 santababy EDavie, have you always been a yes? you know an awful lot about it. Sadly the man in street wont do any research whtsoever. I was same as Baz, if it aint broke kinda person but i'm swaying towards yes at mo. Probably because my OH is yes and i'm getting more info from him rather than just seeing the constant he said she said on telly. He is a businessman and runs a law firm, you prob know hes also chairman of SA and thinks we can flourish independantly
Boab Feb 2014 1:25pm, 17 Feb 2014 7,471 posts	0 Boab You put your case across well Davie, well informed and a good understanding of the issues. I'll take a look at the links you have posted (when I get a chance). As for Cameron, I am not a fan, but neither am I a fan of Salmond. What is ironic is that Cameron is half Scottish! My biggest question is, can we afford it? That hasn't been answered sufficiently yet. Maybe the links you provide will help with that question. Also, how will this affect me and my family? Selfish view I know, but that is the bottom line.
santababy Feb 2014 1:27pm, 17 Feb 2014 70,127 posts	0 santababy We're not voting for Salmond though Boab, we're voting for independance. Well then have a vote to choose who runs the country i think we all have to think selfishly tbh
jono Feb 2014 1:30pm, 17 Feb 2014 14,765 posts	0 jono its not all about facts, figures, statistics - ideals come into play and not just the SNP's - everyone's . The lines are being drawn and people will have to choose which side they are on. During any sensible constitutional discussion there comes a time when the talking is done, people will rally around emblems, evoke quite often fanciful interpretations of one's past, but one thing is no sure if you go, you go there won't be any civilized talks with tea and biscuits. There will not be a quiet transition - on the pro union side the feelings will be one of you are going to break up the union and walk away smiling - from a lot of people the answer with be a resounding NO. This is just the way things play out................................
santababy Feb 2014 1:31pm, 17 Feb 2014 70,130 posts	0 santababy Do you have scottish roots Jono?
jono Feb 2014 1:37pm, 17 Feb 2014 14,767 posts	0 jono I am Gypsy of the sea Santa, does sailing out of Greenock / Rosyth count?
santababy Feb 2014 1:39pm, 17 Feb 2014 70,134 posts	0 santababy och aye.
daviec Feb 2014 1:39pm, 17 Feb 2014 3,717 posts	0 daviec Agreed on all points boab. Watch the video by Ivan McKee for the question on affordability. Also see this businessforscotland.co.uk and this businessforscotland.co.uk for further detail. I wouldn't make any vote based on personality. Salmond does get a rough ride in the press and it obviously seeps into public consciousness but based on their actions I'd be much more trusting of Salmond to deliver what's best for Scotland. Santa - I was originally a No, but I didn't want to make an uninformed decision so I looked into it, became undecided so needed more info and just went looking for it. The clincher for me was Ivan McKee's presentation and I also watched a debate at Abertay Uni between Stewart Hosie MP and Lord George Robertson. Since then I've seen nothing that's convinced me that we'd be better off staying in the union. Every time an argument gets put forward I look into it as I simply don't trust our media now. It's politicised me like nothing else. I've always voted but never expected it to make any difference. I've previously voted Labour, Lib Dems and SNP so I'm not aligned to a particular party either. I just think that this is our one chance to have a say on something that could really make a difference and having looked into it in great detail I can see why some people will still vote no, but I think if the true facts weren't hidden and spun by the media/government then it would be a landslide Yes result.
Boab Feb 2014 1:40pm, 17 Feb 2014 7,472 posts	0 Boab I'm aware what the vote is for, I just like to say when I don't like people