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Dec 2019
3:41pm, 29 Dec 2019
9,873 posts
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Joopsy
It’s your business.
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Dec 2019
3:43pm, 29 Dec 2019
11,574 posts
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Garfield
I'm nearly vegan...still eat the occasional egg and fish but no dairy.
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Dec 2019
4:40pm, 29 Dec 2019
44,502 posts
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Velociraptor
As the spouse of someone who did the small business thing for love, I would not encourage anyone I care about to try to make a living that way.
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Dec 2019
5:27pm, 29 Dec 2019
8,770 posts
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The Terminator
Purps x You do what you have to do. I am happy to tell anyone who asks why I think veganism is something all should embrace but also happy to understand there are good reasons why some people cant.
Vrap it's tough for sure.
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Dec 2019
5:29pm, 29 Dec 2019
44,505 posts
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Velociraptor
I'm a recurrently failed vegan. Some people, for reasons that aren't fully understood and may lie in this newfangled gut bacteria thing, don't do well on a vegan diet, for reasons that have nothing to do with lack of motivation or failure to pay attention to nutrition, and I appear to be one of them (I also need more calories than I theoretically "should" for my age, size and activity level) and have to eat some meat and cheese for optimal health. But I love vegan food, and the proliferation of vegan convenience food over the last ten years has pleased me no end. Two of my daughters are vegan and I suspect the third is heading that way too.
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Dec 2019
5:41pm, 29 Dec 2019
4,037 posts
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Raemond
I'm not vegan, and don't particularly aspire to be. I don't have a moral problem with the concept of eating animals, or farming them in a small scale high welfare type way - it was an integral part of human development (though obviously the fact that it *was* integral doesn't mean that it still is or was therefore morally sound either at the time or now. Human slavery and genocide were integral to empire building and were wrong then and always will be. But I'm talking more about very very early human development, where farming and animal husbandry enabled some people to specialise in non-food production activities like blacksmithing or music or working out irrigation)
I do have a problem with large scale, factory style, animal exploitation. In that regard I don't see the point of being vegetarian if it's for ethical reasons because killing intensively farmed animals arguably isn't the worst thing we do to them. So I will usually go for vegan options where they're available (also to enhance the impression that there's a market for them and incentivise more companies to make and offer them), but will very happily buy eggs from people who keep a few happy hens in their back yards or honey from beekeepers, meat or wool from small organic farmers, etc, and will buy non vegan products if I can't find a plant based option.
I also have no issues with animal testing for medical purposes where necessary - I certainly wouldn't want it outlawed in the UK or EU because then it would just move to places with much lower standards for authorising it and the results would likely be compromised as well.
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Dec 2019
6:02pm, 29 Dec 2019
8,771 posts
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The Terminator
I disagree on all points Raymond, as you probably expected, but you make them very eloquently and show clear compassion and support for veganism as a lifestyle.
Bottom line yes some animals are looked after better before being killed, or before their baby or produce is taken, for our consumption but it still shouldn't happen.
I'm the same regards animal testing as to think otherwise would suggest I think animals are less important as a species than humans which I don't.
As I said you probably expected this response though 😂
I have used the slavery analogy many times myself by the way. It usually resonates.
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Dec 2019
6:04pm, 29 Dec 2019
8,772 posts
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The Terminator
Raemond sorry. Autocorrect.
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Dec 2019
6:30pm, 29 Dec 2019
4,038 posts
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Raemond
You're not wrong - I understand that it's just a fundamental difference between considering all lives equal or human and animal lives differently, and that for those who consider all lives equal the idea of farming is absolutely equal to slavery and genocide and they/you feel as strongly about that as I (and hopefully most 'right thinking' people) do about human rights violations.
As it happens, the sort of small scale 'ethical' farming that I can easily morally support is so much the exception that I'm aware a fully vegan lifestyle would be a better fit for me, but mostly only to the same extent that a lot of people are aware that single use plastics and excessive car journeys or long hot baths are killing the planet.
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Dec 2019
6:35pm, 29 Dec 2019
4,039 posts
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Raemond
(also, no worries about the name spelling, I know it's not done deliberately or with malicious intent :D)
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Veg(etari)an group
Nov 2024
