Transgender exercise - Lets Fetch Everyone

1 lurker | 80 watchers
Feb 2023
9:24pm, 6 Feb 2023
1,814 posts
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Vixx
gambrinus - same. I like the training logs and info but have thought very seriously about leaving. But many Fetchies are also extremely kind and generous.
Feb 2023
10:06pm, 6 Feb 2023
22,101 posts
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Carpathius
I'm in the same boat as halfpint - I doubt I could ever understand what it's like to be trans, but I can call out transphobia where I see it; and try to listen and learn.

I do not expect anyone, Fetchie or otherwise to explain their gender to me. It does worry me a lot that there are people who, like gambrinus, find that this is yet another place where they find their identity questioned.
Feb 2023
10:21pm, 6 Feb 2023
2,889 posts
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Grast_girl
I hope you don't leave Vixx (gambrinus and anyone else who's considering it/lurking).

My first experience meeting a trans woman was when I was 17 (and very wet behind the ears on all this stuff, I was yet to knowingly meet someone who was gay). They were a late transitioner, and stayed in the same job, so everyone knew. Their employer was surprisingly enlightened about things for the time, but there was some friction with the shared bathrooms thing. Oddly because of the mess she would leave in the toilets after putting on makeup than an objection to a trans woman being in the women's toilets. She also had the problems that I think have only been "fixed" fairly recently regarding her marriage potentially being annulled if she wanted to have a GRC. This would have been 1998 (ish), so I think this would have been before civil partnerships were possible anyway.

My cousin is also a trans woman. She had some nasty treatment from some members of the family before she transitioned officially. One of my younger cousins was apparently concerned/upset by them having long hair (before transition) and cousins mum was struggling to explain it in a way that was appropriate for a small child (I figured you can just say some men like having long hair, so couldn't see the problem). Also, when she wanted to present as a woman at my uncles wedding to his second wife, she was accused of wanting to steal the attention from the bride, which seems unlikely to me. I just assumed she wanted to have positive memories of the day. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to be there to support her.

I'm not really sure why I wrote all that other than to try to give a little glimpse of how things may be for some trans people.
CK2
Apr 2023
5:35am, 5 Apr 2023
1,893 posts
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CK2
I just signed this if you’re interested - actions.stonewall.org.uk
Apr 2023
7:52pm, 5 Apr 2023
1,841 posts
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Vixx
Thank you :)
Apr 2023
7:55pm, 5 Apr 2023
11,975 posts
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Joopsy
Done
Apr 2023
8:04pm, 5 Apr 2023
4,575 posts
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StuH
Saw and signed a while ago 👍
Apr 2023
8:53pm, 5 Apr 2023
1,726 posts
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-Monty-
👍
Apr 2023
9:45am, 8 Apr 2023
729 posts
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CreatureOfTheHill
We are the origin of this thread.

Why bother with sports, well the vast majority do not want trans people participating. The amount of vitriol and double speak from so many of the governing bodies, well that just makes us go "f##k that, why even try and participate when you view us as a cheat from the outset". We were/are among the least competitive people you'll meet. But we did like to challenge *ourselves* in various events over the years.
Guess that's not going to ever be the case anymore.

Screw watching sports we used to be interested in, that we used to participate in.

F##k sport.
They preach inclusion and desire for increased participation.

We see you for the frauds you are.

Only ever swimming wild, riding remote solos, running trails, climbing mountains and all the other things sport cannot bring their bile to.

Not surprised to see Fetch both sides this.

The UK has descended into the the waves of transphobic depravity we have seen sweep across America, our trajectory is parallel even if a little behind.

We are monstered in the media as sports cheats, rapists and increasingly the language of the US in using groomer and such to imply links to paedophilia.

Rarely does a day go past without some media story on the front page of a newspaper, on the radio, social media.

We have received abuse in the street, been sent images of mutilated animals with messages urging us to kill ourselves. For nothing more than being visibly trans.

We campaigned for GRR using the due process, got it through. Despite some of the most hateful conduct by MSPs. One referring to a transgender person as "it", and don't get us started on the way they referred to autism whilst blocking an autistic person from responding. Just so we could be buried with dignity and our children didn't have to fight that battle at a difficult time.

Sign your petitions. But if you believe that's what will work, well sorry...
That will not stop them and it will NOT create safe spaces.

This year alone we have attended a vigil for a 16 year old transgender girl who was brutally murdered in a stabbing. After which she was deadnamed and misgendered by the press.

We have seen the EHRC push advice to remove existing rights from transgender people.

Yesterday, it was front page of a UK broadsheet newspaper about a trans woman wearing a sports bra.

We kid you not, the last line of that article was "The End... of civilisation as we know it".

We could give countless other examples. It is relentless.

We grew up under Section 28. Had kids at school hurl homophobic and transphobic abuse, with no intervention from staff.

Indeed, when we began our teaching career, Section 28 was still in place. Those effects live with us to this day.

As a trans person with that experience, it feels like we have returned to those times. Indeed, the language around transphobia, homophobia, racism and bigotry of all types is flourishing far faster than it did then.

The dehumanisation of trans people is not surprising. It goes hand in hand with what is happening to others.

The fact that Mein Kampf was quoted at a UK rally for "women's rights" recently is no surprise. There were Nazi salutes and fascists parading in support of the same people the southern hemisphere. Where interestingly they got pushback from politicians and press.

Here in the UK, wonder why it is ignored.

But you know, it's a "culture war" and all that. People just have valid concerns. They are just asking questions. It's a reasonable debate.

So carry on.
Debate our existence.

Paint a block of people as one.

Create a society where we turn on Radio 5 and hear a presenter talk about "the transgender question". Guess which mustache wearing type used the same language and what the answer was...

But sure it's all hyperbolic. You can dismiss what is happening and pretend it's OK, turn away.

Going to delete our account on here.
Was logging on whenever fetch sent an email just to keep this thread alive for those that night want it.

But seeing the same hatred and bigotry infecting here as elsewhere (guess we have reached a critical mass) we no longer want to have to subject ourselves to any more than we absolutely have to.

Fighting to stay OK and for the right to live unmolested is hard enough.

Well done transphobes, guess you are winning.

We will likely leave the UK in the next couple of years, once our youngest child is independent. Why we we want to live somewhere under increasing threat and frankly where we are not wanted.

As we wrote on Trans Day of Visibility elsewhere:

Trans day of "F##k off with visibility"

Just another day with a target on our back.

If you ARE trans.
F##k yeah, it's great isn't it.

We LOVE being trans, it's who we are.
Just because we hate having to constantly fight for everything, rights to care, health, marry and die with dignity... Doesn't stop us from loving finally being what we always were.

Every day, we get better, happier, more content.
Trans f##king JOY right there.
Gender euphoria.

But it's not for sharing with the general society.
They who would impose violence on us, vote and enable others to do violence because of their cowardice, turn away because it doesn't effect them directly.

It's for our trans sisters, brothers, enbies, comrades, rejecters in all shapes of what was "assigned at birth".
For you, we are visible.
For you we state unequivocally, we stand with you.
We love you, and you are f##king amazing in all your transness.
We see you, you are visible to us.
To us you matter.
Apr 2023
12:22pm, 8 Apr 2023
23 posts
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Charlesvdw
I had a trans collegue for years, it never was an issue.
To each his own.

But competitive sports are different. There are undisputable biological diffferences between men and women, hence 2 categories.
Just to give 1 example, no female tennis player could ever get into the top 100 if there weren’t separate categories.
To give women a fair chance to be competitive, separate categories were created.

Trans women (former males) are XY persons who have gone through male puberty.
It would be unfair to biological females (XX) having to compete against trans women, who are (trans advocates won’t like this !) biologically male and therefore have an unfair advantage.
In some sports like boxing, but also in soccer, basketball and other sports it would be dangerous to have women compete against trans women.

One has to chose between 2 options: either fairness and safety or inclusion.

Although I respect trans persons, I strongly believe that in sports fairness and safety have to prevail. So does World Athletics.

About This Thread

Maintained by
A thread about how we can encourage and include people in whatever exercise they are interested in and removing barriers to participation.

Glossary
--------------------
Amendments/Corrections/Requests just ask for a sidebar edit.
This is NOT comprehensive, just some helpful shorthand.
---------------------

Gender Identity ≠ Gender Expression ≠ Anatomical Sex ≠ Sexual Orientation

Anatomical sex = The physical aspects that make you fit into a category based on genitals, chromosomes etc i.e. Intersex, Female, Male...
Gender identity = The internal view of gender, the way you see yourself.
Gender expression = The way you present to others externally through clothing, behaviours, language and other social signals.

Sexual orientation = Who you are attracted to.

None of the above are dependent on any of the others, individuals may relate one to another in their specific case, but assuming what one might be based on observation of another is not a sound basis for determination.

Transgender (Trans) = When your gender identity does not match your identity assigned at birth based on anatomical sex.
Cisgender (Cis) = When your gender identity matches your identity assigned at birth based on anatomical sex.
Non Binary (Enby) = When your gender identity doesn't fall into either of the female/male choice. It may exist somewhere on the spectrum between woman and man, either stable of fluctuating between woman-ness and man-ness. This may encapsulate those that may use terms such as genderfluid, agender, demigender et al.

Pronouns = she/her, him/his, them/they etc...
How to refer best to someone else. Really simply, follow their lead. Ask if unsure, be polite. If corrected, it's not a problem unless you repeatedly ignore correction.

Transition = The process somebody goes through to alter their physical attributes to better match their gender identity and expression.

Dysphoria = The distress a person feels due to a mismatch between their gender identity and their sex assigned at birth. Can fluctuate and be experienced at varying degrees.
Dysmorphia = Discomfort with the shape/form of the body. Present in eating disorders and the like, but can often effect transgender people, with triggers such as body hair presence/absence, chest/genital presentation etc.
Deadname - The name a person is assigned at birth, that they no longer use.

Triggers = Things that are known to cause an effect. Typically, X causes a person to experience dysphoria/dysmorphia. Sometimes these can be managed/avoided, other times they are inevitable.

Acronyms:
amab = assigned male at birth (originally born anatomically male)

afab = assigned female at birth (originally born anatomically female)

ftm = female to male transitioner
mtf = male to female transitioner
egg = state of somebody before becoming aware they were transgender i.e. "their egg cracked when they realised and began to emerge"
GIC/GIS = Gender Identity Clinic/Service, providing transition services
GRS = Gender Reassignment Surgery

General notes:
* Not everyone will be comfortable talking about their situation, depending on where they are.
* Not everyone has the language to articulate how they feel, what they want to say. Be patient.
* These things are NOT static, what you encounter in a person today may evolve into something else later.
* Am I trans/cis/enby etc... Frankly, you tell us. Whatever YOU are comfortable with at the time is what we will adopt. It is YOUR identity.
* This language is weird. Yup, and we (CreatureOfTheHill) as a plural system talk strange too, it's OK. We (CreatureOfTheHill) are not "normal", never have been.
* Am I weird/abnormal? Possibly, but it has NOTHING to do with being here or being trans/enby or whatever. People just are in general, and that is OK, we love you for your quirkiness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFL5GTKwonQ


Resources:
Genderbread Person genderbread.org

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  • inclusion
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