Transgender Athletes

2 lurkers | 97 watchers

option_Richard Oct 2019 12:54pm, 2 Oct 2019 110 posts	0 option_Richard Someone posted a video of a talk by Dr Emma Hilton. "Dr Emma Hilton is a developmental biologist and University Lecturer. She has published more than twenty manuscripts on developmental biology and genetics and was named Outstanding Young Investigator by the European Society of Human Genetics, for her research." She's a research technician at UofM, Division of Infection, Immunity & Respiratory Medicine. Her specialism is developmental biology in frogs, blindness & urinary issues. She has contributed to various published papers, but is not a primary author. She did win an award, in 2007, for her part in this paper; https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/publications/leftsided-embryonic-expression-of-the-bcl6-corepressor-bcor-is-required-for-vertebrate-laterality-determination(bd50cc22-a1a2-4483-9d19-0b043f099c67).html Maybe before posting links etc, people should look at whether the person they are linking to is actually qualified & experienced, & therefore worth listening to on the subject.
option_Richard Oct 2019 1:18pm, 2 Oct 2019 111 posts	0 option_Richard Here's a short piece where they discuss testosterone levels, their ranges, & impact; blogs.bmj.com " The IOC requires those competing in the female division to have testosterone levels < 10nmol/L. This is below the younger male range (less than forty years old) of 10.4-41.6 nmol/L (Boyce et. al., 2004). However, the levels for acceptable testosterone to compete in the female division are perhaps set too high, especially given the standard testosterone range for cis-women is between 0.3-2.1 nmol/L (Braunstein et. al., 2011). " "... it could be argued that the high testosterone trans-women have is similar to those variations arising from the genetic lottery, especially when some women have naturally high testosterone levels in the range of 2.1-5.1 nmol/L (Kindi et.al., 2012). "
option_Richard Oct 2019 1:27pm, 2 Oct 2019 112 posts	0 option_Richard So, looking at those levels, it could be possible for someone 'born a male' who has a genetic or medical condition that gives them a low testosterone level to compete in the 'womens' category at IOC events. If testosterone is the only dividing line, then you have to accept that that could happen. You also have to accept that some 'born a woman' athletes could have natural levels double that of others, & they will have 'benefited' from those levels in terms of body development for years.
paul the builder Oct 2019 3:55pm, 2 Oct 2019 6,632 posts	0 paul the builder As regards competing in women's sport - being born a women with higher T level than average is analogous to being taller than average, or larger lung capacity than average. It's a variation within the spectrum of 'woman'. Your hypothetical about a man with a medical condition resulting in low T levels is useful for illustrating why T cannot be the only dividing line between men's and women's sport. That guy wouldn't expect to be allowed to compete in women's sport, and nobody would support him if he tried to do so. So those T limits which seem to be where we're currently headed are, if you like, necessary but not sufficient conditions (plural as they could be different by sport).
TommyK Oct 2019 12:08pm, 16 Oct 2019 161 posts	0 TommyK This was posted on the 14th but I've only just come across it. Headline: "Trans female athletes must lower testosterone levels, IAAF rules" It mentions a new, lower, limit of 5 nmol/L. bbc.co.uk
The_Saint Oct 2019 9:55am, 18 Oct 2019 6,448 posts	0 The_Saint From the Bears in Woods research institute "Testosterone boosts women's athletic performance, study shows" theguardian.com
Grast_girl Oct 2019 10:12am, 18 Oct 2019 760 posts	0 Grast_girl I tried to find the study mentioned in the Guardian article and came up with nothing, presumably the journal article itself is still embargoed. Also it isn't mentioned on the news feed of her employer: karolinska.se If anyone else manages to find it, can you post a link up here?
jda Oct 2019 10:18am, 18 Oct 2019 5,577 posts	0 jda you mean this? bjsm.bmj.com
paul the builder Oct 2019 10:23am, 18 Oct 2019 6,651 posts	0 paul the builder I think this is it? bjsm.bmj.com I don't have time to read it line by line now. It's good this data exists, and is published. But as Saint says - we already know it. The question is: what to do with it?
The_Saint Oct 2019 5:42pm, 18 Oct 2019 6,449 posts	0 The_Saint I think the main thing it should do (but won't) is shut down the bogus argument that has been put forward that Testosterone doesn't make a difference. Curiously nobody who claimed this could explain why taking it would get anyone male or female a drugs ban if caught.